Hand to hand? Are you training?

[xdpatriot]

Well I'm starting over. I'm taking a break from Wing Chun and getting into Aikido. It got me to wondering if people on this site and others like it are doing any hand to hand combat training along with their tactical training(if any). If so, what are you studying?

[SCinPNW]

I am not training but I have my daughter taking Combat Hapkido and I watch every class. At some point I hope to join the class too. It is a great class, seems very practical, however, it is not cheap.

SC

[Matt In Oklahoma]

I'm currently trying to get into the Russian Systemia course and I still activly train whenever possible with others.
My training was sometimes short termed due to deployments in the Military. Sometimes we had a Black or Brown Belt who would teach us during these times either on deployments or inbetween. Some of my stuff was in a more formal setting. I broke it down as to what i've had and still incorporate in my training and current job where I sometimes get to fight which is the best "training". I have never found the "perfect" style yet because situation dictates and am always looking for new things to put in the toolbox.

Gojo-Ryu-several years- blocking and defense in standing positions
Taekwondo-6mths- punching and aggresive blocks in standing positions
Aikido-6 mths- utilizing others energy against them (probably what i thought was the hardest style to learn of all because of heavy empahsis on positioning and stances)
Wrestling-2yrs-feeling your opponents motion and acting or reacting for dominate position
Boxing-few years off and on-punching and movement I really need more as i'm getting sloppy again. I still work the heavy bag at least once a week during normal workout routines
Brazilian Ju Jitsu-few months-ground fighting, chokes and appendage immobilization
Judo-1 mth- feeling your oppenents body movements and using them against him with throws and flips
Several courses in Military Combatives-training has shifted to ground fighting almost as much as standing now in the last 20yrs but is also incorporating retaining your weapon during the fight as well as the old bayonet training (which I hear has gone away), knife fighting and pugil stick fighting.
Several courses from Law Enforcement and Correctional academies-these usually only teach control, takedowns and escapes but are also becoming big on weapons/equipment retention techniques which is something that everyone who carries should take especially these places with open carry.

[610Alpha]

I just bought the Systema: Hand to Hand dvd and i must say it has piqued my interest. No forms to memorize, no Katas, just natural movement of your body. I am hoping to get with a Systema training partner to work on this otherwise I will be on my own.

[Patriot Prepper]

Yes, I train everyday. As a 5th degree Black Belt, I have trained thousands of people over the years. There are some martial arts that are better than others. When I created Extreme Combat Hapkido, I integrated more knife techniques over swords, and other traditional MA weapons because you can carry knives easier than a sword. I also integrated Combat handgun, shotgun, and carbine AR15, into my lessons. All my black belt students can handle knives and firearms in a self defense situation. I think this training will help people endure a SHTF situation.

God Bless. Keep on Prepping.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Yes, I train everyday. As a 5th degree Black Belt, I have trained thousands of people over the years. There are some martial arts that are better than others. When I created Extreme Combat Hapkido, I integrated more knife techniques over swords, and other traditional MA weapons because you can carry knives easier than a sword. I also integrated Combat handgun, shotgun, and carbine AR15, into my lessons. All my black belt students can handle knives and firearms in a self defense situation. I think this training will help people endure a SHTF situation. God Bless. Keep on Prepping.

PP do you have a school that teaches this, an internet site or any videos where we can view this style of ECH?

[Patriot Prepper]

PP do you have a school that teaches this, an internet site or any videos where we can view this style of ECH?

I sold my schools over 17 years ago when I retired and moved to Florida. I am essentially retired but still employ as a bodyguard and teach private martial arts lessons. Everything is word of mouth. Never needed a website. If I could find people to train as instructors, I might start a school. I just do not need the money and the liability is getting astronomical.

I have been contacted by various publishers to create a self-defense video - thanks to a couple of my friends. That would be a massive undertaking and I spend too much time traveling and also helping people set up their retreats and prepping plans.

I wanted to make the ECH a youtube video series, but never got around to it. In fact, I have not made a youtube video in over 6 months. There were a few people in our group that wanted me to take down my videos due to OPSEC. I refused to remove my videos but have not made any new ones. I just do not have the time.

My life is filled with things to do from morning to night, including shooting and prepping.

If I can slow down, I would like to start making more prepper and self-defense videos.

Thanks Matt for inquiring.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

I sold my schools over 17 years ago when I retired and moved to Florida. I am essentially retired but still employ as a bodyguard and teach private martial arts lessons. Everything is word of mouth. Never needed a website. If I could find people to train as instructors, I might start a school. I just do not need the money and the liability is getting astronomical.
I have been contacted by various publishers to create a self-defense video - thanks to a couple of my friends. That would be a massive undertaking and I spend too much time traveling and also helping people set up their retreats and prepping plans.
I wanted to make the ECH a youtube video series, but never got around to it. In fact, I have not made a youtube video in over 6 months. There were a few people in our group that wanted me to take down my videos due to OPSEC. I refused to remove my videos but have not made any new ones. I just do not have the time.
My life is filled with things to do from morning to night, including shooting and prepping.
If I can slow down, I would like to start making more prepper and self-defense videos.
Thanks Matt for inquiring.

Ok, thanks, let us know if anything changes as several of us are interested in this

[boltgun308]

I would say that 99% of the SF guys that are trained in the military never use their hand-to-hand skills and it is probably closer to 100%. If you let someone get that close to you and laying hands on that someone is your last option, you are not real smart to begin with. Some guys don't even carry a knife unless it is on a leatherman or gerber tool.

If your using some form of hands-on combat to stay in shape, I'm all for it. Much better exercise than running and destroying your knees and hips. In my opinion though, if you think being a good fighter will make up for poor gun fighting skills, stupidity, or piss poor planning you are probably going to die. The days of fist fighting and everyone goes home as friends is pretty much over.

Law enforcement is a different deal. They are required to get close and handcuff or impair someone while using minimal force. Most here are not police officers and have no reason to be in someone's grill. Hand-to-hand ranks on my list somewhere near the bottom, probably below learning how to mountain climb and thats even if I lived in Florida (where there are no mountains to climb).

[Matt In Oklahoma]

I would say that 99% of the SF guys that are trained in the military never use their hand-to-hand skills and it is probably closer to 100%. If you let someone get that close to you and laying hands on that someone is your last option, you are not real smart to begin with. Some guys don't even carry a knife unless it is on a leatherman or gerber tool.
If your using some form of hands-on combat to stay in shape, I'm all for it. Much better exercise than running and destroying your knees and hips. In my opinion though, if you think being a good fighter will make up for poor gun fighting skills, stupidity, or piss poor planning you are probably going to die. The days of fist fighting and everyone goes home as friends is pretty much over.
Law enforcement is a different deal. They are required to get close and handcuff or impair someone while using minimal force. Most here are not police officers and have no reason to be in someone's grill. Hand-to-hand ranks on my list somewhere near the bottom, probably below learning how to mountain climb and thats even if I lived in Florida (where there are no mountains to climb).

I disagree with many things you are saying and especially the bashing of people who let someone get that close. Things happen whether it's in walmart or during the big one, we can't live out of the UPS truck and no one keeps the 1/2 mile line from everyone, things will happen. I do agree with some of SF's missions as they dont deal at arms length with the public day in and day out like other Soldiers who do have to lay hands on folks for various reasons. The exception is when they are trainers and we have seen many failures to get hands on rather than fall back on the weapon when they were "that close" and the trainees turned on them. Mission dictates

[610Alpha]

I saw a guy get attacked at a red light in Chicago, don't remember what part of chicago. There have also been recent attacks in my AO on people at stop lights and pedestrians, it doesn't matter where you live crap happens. It CAN & WILL happen any place any time...

[xdpatriot]

I would say that 99% of the SF guys that are trained in the military never use their hand-to-hand skills and it is probably closer to 100%. If you let someone get that close to you and laying hands on that someone is your last option, you are not real smart to begin with. Some guys don't even carry a knife unless it is on a leatherman or gerber tool.

If your using some form of hands-on combat to stay in shape, I'm all for it. Much better exercise than running and destroying your knees and hips. In my opinion though, if you think being a good fighter will make up for poor gun fighting skills, stupidity, or piss poor planning you are probably going to die. The days of fist fighting and everyone goes home as friends is pretty much over.

Law enforcement is a different deal. They are required to get close and handcuff or impair someone while using minimal force. Most here are not police officers and have no reason to be in someone's grill. Hand-to-hand ranks on my list somewhere near the bottom, probably below learning how to mountain climb and thats even if I lived in Florida (where there are no mountains to climb).

When I used to fight full contact, I trained with guys that didn't ever want to travel on ground fighting. Why you ask? They would say "I'm not gonna go to the ground!". You want to guess the first thing I did when we fought? Yep. Took em to the ground and submitted them. I train with firearms. I've taken classes from professionals. But like others have said, we are in close proximity to people costantly in everyday life. In my opinion, its piss poor planning to not train our weaknesses. Plan for the best, PREPARE for the worst.

[boltgun308]

Most of you guys are training to impair, subdue, handcuff, etc. In a real SHTF scenario, once you subdue, then what? What are you going to do with them? No jails, no police, now what?

Most of the scenarios presented here could be stopped before the first punch is thrown by being aware of what is going on around you. Granted, LEO and MP's have a completely different situation. They must respond, confront, and ultimately make an arrest. 99% of the other people can simply live to fight another day. The best fighters in the world get injured and post SHTF is not the time for injuries. Gain distance from the threat and either turn your cheek or eliminate

[Patriot Prepper]

Most of you guys are training to impair, subdue, handcuff, etc. In a real SHTF scenario, once you subdue, then what? What are you going to do with them? No jails, no police, now what?

Most of the scenarios presented here could be stopped before the first punch is thrown by being aware of what is going on around you. Granted, LEO and MP's have a completely different situation. They must respond, confront, and ultimately make an arrest. 99% of the other people can simply live to fight another day. The best fighters in the world get injured and post SHTF is not the time for injuries. Gain distance from the threat and either turn your cheek or eliminate

Hey Boltgun, in various street confrontations, I have used sweeps that drop the guy on his back from 4 feet off the ground and follow up with a wrist lock. It takes the fight out of most guys. If they still have fight in them, I break the wrist or knock them out. I have also knocked out plenty of guys in street fights. No need to subdue or handcuff.

I also work as a bodyguard in Exec Protection. That is really a job that depends on being aware. But the truth is, you can never be aware of all circumstances. There were several instances where I has altercations including gunfights. Yes situational awareness is critical, but is not an absolute guarantee that you can avoid a conflict - no matter how smart you are. Or think you are.

You mention that H2H could result in injuries. True. But I would rather be injured in a H2H conflict then be shot in a gunfight.

I believe distance is important. But once again, keep in mind, the bad guys have bolt guns too. There is no such thing as a totally safe distance. I train and teach H2H, Combat pistol, shotgun, and carbine. That covers the range from close up and personal - eye ball to eye ball and just over the 200 yard range. But I also practice long range precision shooting, using bolt gun 308's - semi auto 308s - .338 LM and the 50 BMG.

I can hit a dime at 300 yards on a good day. This summer I will be shooting the one mile mark. That's a long distance. But does that mean I should not study H2H, or close up with a handgun? A shotgun? Or even an AR carbine? Of course not!!!

If someone is interested in H2H then they should be encouraged. No one here ever said that H2H replaces training with firearms. No one ever said that being proficient in H2H meant you could be stupid and survive. No one ever said that if you train in H2H that you would not try to stay at a distance to the enemy. All we are saying is that in society today, as well as when the SHTF, having H2H combat skills is a good thing.

[610Alpha]

http://www.statesman.com/news/texas/texas-digest-man-kills-daughters-alleged-attacker-2397830.html?cxtype=rss_texas

@Boltgun308 - this story could have ended differently. I have a 2 1/2 year old daughter and it is my duty to protect her. Still don't think H2H is necessary?