Hand to hand? Are you training?

[Tackleberry]

So this weekend Team Sharpshooter and Team Hit n Miss and myself took an all day stick and knife fighting course from one of the main instructors. The course material was intense and not knowing the taught curriculum is humbling and frustrating at times but if it was easy everyone would do it. The amount of info was at about the max that I can retain. The arms take a beating for sure, the last time I had a real deep bruise was when I had a car wreck so this can attest to the level trained:

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I can not encourage you all enough to get out there and get the ego and body a little banged up so you will "have been there" should something bad happen. I don't post this stuff for self horn tooting but to encourage you to train. I know it's not easy to make the time, pay the price, drive the distance or get your a.. handed to you but if you train this hard the fight will not be

Matt,

21 years ago I met a former Mormon missionary who did his mission in the Philippines. While on his mission he came across a small village where some guys were going at each other with sticks. The style was called Balintawak. Unlike the escrima styles he had seen before that utilized 2 sticks, Balintawak fighters only use 1 stick.... no gloves and no pads. The style lends itself to using machetes, swords, knives, or empty hands in combat. I studied under the guy for little over a year. There were too many days where I came out of practice with bruises just like the ones you have in those photos.

Here are some YouTube links to get an idea of what the style is about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYMTgOb2tAk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpn2Nn4a7Ko

This video shows the progression from hands, to knives, to sticks, to swords.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3RfzAyfsmk

If any of are interested in learning hand to hand, I highly recommend this style but be forewarned....you will get hit and you will have bruises to show for it.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

So this weekend Team Sharpshooter and Team Hit n Miss and myself took an all day stick and knife fighting course from one of the main instructors. The course material was intense and not knowing the taught curriculum is humbling and frustrating at times but if it was easy everyone would do it. The amount of info was at about the max that I can retain. The arms take a beating for sure, the last time I had a real deep bruise was when I had a car wreck so this can attest to the level trained:



I can not encourage you all enough to get out there and get the ego and body a little banged up so you will "have been there" should something bad happen. I don't post this stuff for self horn tooting but to encourage you to train. I know it's not easy to make the time, pay the price, drive the distance or get your a.. handed to you but if you train this hard the fight will not be

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Well it was myself, Team Hit n Miss and Sharpshooter last night. We worked sticks for a bit on heaven 6 and then worked knives with empty hand vs blade and finished with some blade vs blade.
I always stress it is more important to move and not get cut than execute some ninja block so my cardio always gets a workout during blades. When you do block make it hurt in the form of an attack then a counter attack and make them pay. Never come in straight where the danger is and work angles. For those that throw kicks keep them low, no sense in giving the opposition a shallow artery to strike, like the femoral, or a tendon that stops your movement, like the Achilles.
Arms took a beating and the 100+ temps kept us down a bit but we were taking it easy for the big extra weekend class with an out of state instructor who is coming in.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

The last few weeks we have been working on basics with sticks like the heaven 6, disarms and the puno (the bottom of the stick) strikes and basic knife stabs and slashes called the 7s and 49s in preparation for a larger class with an instructor who will be coming in from out of town to work with us. The ability to flow and transition from one weapon to another is great having learned some of the basics in each style.


Team Hit n Miss learning the slicing n dicing 7s







nothing says love like cutting one anothers throat LOL

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Well last night was good, moved it inside due to weather which of course stayed sunshiney and nice LOL. The group was small, OWA didn't represent well :(. We worked on sticks and some of the disarms after recovering what we went over last week.
We took a good look at several situations with fighting someone with height differences and some possibilities of outside the box finishing moves.
As we go thru things it's always interesting that one person finds one move easier or is more fluid than others and we learn our likes and dislikes. There are things I go "wow" and will use from now on and others I would never use because of complicity, design, realism or the big one, my abilities.
I'm big on weak hand stuff too and we traded out for strong hand to weak hand which is almost comical when I try the first few times as it seems I have no coordination or strength and look/feel weird doing it.

[1Admin]

Enjoyed it as always we worked knife defense again. Got Team Karen and Team Hit n Miss out there.
There were a few things I gotta practice harder on as I ate the blade several times with a couple of training partners.
A couple of things of note are:
Have the mindset that you will get cut/stabbed, there is no way around it in this type of knife vs empty hands fight. The key is staying in it and not giving up.

Work their blade into them whenever possible. It saves your resources for later and is the tool at hand requiring no extra motion to access.

Physical fitness plays into this stuff. I don't care what "moves" you think you have if you are fighting someone who has more endurance, is stronger and faster it will be a long day even if you win.
Yep! The spirit may be willing but if the flesh is weak or USED TO GIVING UP EASY, then it will. Only way to increase stamina is to get out there and put in the work. No Xbox program for endurance....

Get off the X and move, lots of footwork in staying alive.

We live or we die by movement. Should be as natural and unrestricted as possible, no "kata" steps and related non sense.

There is always one more thing you can do. If one doesn't work try something else. There are always variables.
Another HUGE reason you train, you won't know what will work or what won't until you try it REPEATEDLY, against various types and body sizes. Their is a 300 lb. not a lot of fat huge dude that fights with us sometimes. I can/have caught him in many an armlock- and got shaken off like a rag doll (he's 120 lbs. bigger). But if I choke him and he doesn't respond, "nighty night sweetheart!" Gotta learn these things now.

Study the anatomy, don't need to know the names of stuff. Know what holds what together and why it should be cut and where the blood flows freely OR has the best psychological effect. It's a difference between a trained fighter and the thug on the street swinging randomly. Cut whatever you can but when you have a choice waste little motion and conserve because that opponent may just be the first of many.

We worked the armbar takedown which I demonstrated however I'm still not sure with certain exceptions that should be used in knife fighting. I fully believe for the purposes of most in the class that the breaking contact and accessing your weapon and/or gaining distance is best. It's an option, tool for the toolbox. If it was used I would break off the contact once they hit the ground unless you are very confident. I must remain committed to the task at hand so that the threat doesn't leave the area and harm others by maintaining control but unless you have loved ones nearby with no chance of escape I would really take the time to consider options now before engagement. I chose my course of career and life but it is not the path all should follow especially for survival because even after all these years there are days I still don't go home the same as I went in from avoidable injuries.

I hope everyone made it home safely and undamaged. That storm got wrapped up pretty tight and dumped some big hail and 70+mph winds.

Good notes on the break contact versus follow to ground. A well rounded fighter will know HOW to fight on the ground, but more important when NOT to take the fight to the ground. Me and one guy with small chances of weapons involved, sure come on down, welcome to my world, come let us swim together. Multiples, nope, different tactics.

Most weapons can be quickly and easily negated at closer ranges, a good knifer probably being more dangerous than 99% of those that CCW every day but never train and aren't used to going hands on.

[1Admin]

Word of advice - dont start SonnyP The Forge pushup exercises the day before you stick class especially at my age/shape

"I submit unto you, the answer is in the pushup position." ;)

When I cover for our instructor I always change things up a bit and add some of that workout in. Sometimes we have some early to mid 20's MMA wannabe types in there, the "I'm so tough" pride ooozes out of their bodies. The pride usually leaves in about 2 minutes of the knuckle pushup position or after trying to do some Russian Alligators. Then I have some of the kids from the original kids class do them, that's just another needle in the pride balloon for most of them. Course you can always do the "come on guys, I'm almost twice your age and I can do this." LOL

It's a very humbling workout.

For fun/to change things up, alternate the angles, spacing of your fists during pushups. I can't remember if he shows that in the video but he's shown that at classes before. Changes the whole dynamic of the work when one fist is above and out from the body about a foot and one is down by the stomach.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Last night was great! It took my mind off the last few days events and destruction and allowed me to decompress. We worked with sticks. Something I was not fond of at first at all but have had my horizons expanded by my training family.
I'm seeing the usefulness of them and starting to get the feeling for them and have found where the power truly comes from now that I'm holding them properly and am using my body in alignment using feet through the hips and into the shoulder like I do when I punch.
It was good to train with Team Hit n Miss and Team Karen aka kindling maker :)

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Enjoyed it as always we worked knife defense again. Got Team Karen and Team Hit n Miss out there.
There were a few things I gotta practice harder on as I ate the blade several times with a couple of training partners.
A couple of things of note are:
Have the mindset that you will get cut/stabbed, there is no way around it in this type of knife vs empty hands fight. The key is staying in it and not giving up.

Work their blade into them whenever possible. It saves your resources for later and is the tool at hand requiring no extra motion to access.

Physical fitness plays into this stuff. I don't care what "moves" you think you have if you are fighting someone who has more endurance, is stronger and faster it will be a long day even if you win.

Get off the X and move, lots of footwork in staying alive.

There is always one more thing you can do. If one doesn't work try something else. There are always variables.

Study the anatomy, don't need to know the names of stuff. Know what holds what together and why it should be cut and where the blood flows freely OR has the best psychological effect. It's a difference between a trained fighter and the thug on the street swinging randomly. Cut whatever you can but when you have a choice waste little motion and conserve because that opponent may just be the first of many.

We worked the armbar takedown which I demonstrated however I'm still not sure with certain exceptions that should be used in knife fighting. I fully believe for the purposes of most in the class that the breaking contact and accessing your weapon and/or gaining distance is best. It's an option, tool for the toolbox. If it was used I would break off the contact once they hit the ground unless you are very confident. I must remain committed to the task at hand so that the threat doesn't leave the area and harm others by maintaining control but unless you have loved ones nearby with no chance of escape I would really take the time to consider options now before engagement. I chose my course of career and life but it is not the path all should follow especially for survival because even after all these years there are days I still don't go home the same as I went in from avoidable injuries.

I hope everyone made it home safely and undamaged. That storm got wrapped up pretty tight and dumped some big hail and 70+mph winds.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Well got more of the team there last night for some knifework. So now its me, Grand, Sharpshooter and Team Karen which aint bad for our bunch. Like I said played with blades and defense.

We worked thru alot of things and some things worked and some didnt

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Having a Gun
I am always having conversations on “having a gun isn’t enough”. Recently at a training session a guy espoused the fact that he had timed himself by walking fast for 20 ft and that was enough time for him to draw, chamber a round and fire at any attacker. There are very few men I know whose ninja skills are that good. We discussed the fact that it wouldn’t be a fast walk when he was attacked. I told him it seemed we had a minute to grab a rubber gun and we would test his theory but not at a walk. I told him I would allow him to move first, not gonna happen during an attack either. When he flinched I charged and basically he drew and froze, unable to chamber the round in time, and I sasquatched him. I then explained that the Tueller rule was designed for 21ft from an exposed duty holster with a duty ready handgun. He needed to have a round chambered, he needed more space or a way to create it to get to a concealed draw and a plan if it all went wrong.
I then showed him lateral movement and by getting off the X it gained him time to engage, discussed target selection during this and discussed just accepting the charge and wrapping up the attacker to stop the stab/punch then fighting back out to earn the weapon access when it all fails.
We must train, having a gun isn’t enough. The person in this story well he was training and the lessons learned will probably save him if anything ever happens so very little negative judgment can be made for those who worry about such things. In fact I applaud him for pushing off the couch and getting busy.
We then discussed the pocket rocket 380 and being realistic even though he "kept a round chambered" in that one.

There are other posts covering this stuff as well:

https://www.survivalandpreparednessforum.com/showthread.php?3311-To-Chamber-of-Not-To-Chamber/page2

https://www.survivalandpreparednessforum.com/showthread.php?4496-Weekend-Training&highlight=Tueller

He then re-payed me for the quick lesson by stabbing me with a rubber knife in the next drill showing me my ninja skills were also lacking LOL

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Worked on knife vs open hand tonight
Parry, strike then access our weapon from a concealed position. Got cut short by bad weather, hail, tornadoes and flash floods n such but I'll take a short session over none anyday!

[Grand58742]

BTW Grand graduated with honors. I took a pic, see if you can pick him out

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My ninja skills are complete! You can't see me!

[Matt In Oklahoma]

BTW Grand graduated with honors. I took a pic, see if you can pick him out

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Just FYI, I didn't need any pain ointment or medication the day after...unlike SOME people that complained heartily about needing the Bengay the next day...week.
hahahahaha Grand lies, hehehe oh man wait till you do knife force on force full contact. It aint no joke and them arms are gonna be busted up. This was the easiest thing we've done since I started
All in all, interesting training session. Hard for me to wrap my head around some of the stuff since I've been practicing one way for so long. But I eventually got the hang of it and will be able to pick up those plungers in Home Depot and start puttin a whuppin on someone.

yes the plunger conversation LOL I had envision Bruce Willis in the next Die Hard whoppin some terrorist in home depot with plungers during that discussion with a yippie kiyi ya ..
Word of advice - dont start SonnyP The Forge pushup exercises the day before you stick class especially at my age/shape