Discussion of groups

[Benn Gleck]

I don't think I can do the group thing. I have trust issues.

I do have a relative who is fully on board with prepping ....... BUT... and I have to watch how I put this because he reads this forum. He has spent a couple of weekends at our BOL and his wife is NOT a prepper to the point she will not cook at our place because she is "afraid" of a gas range! On each of the three weekends they've spent with us they had to drive to town 20 miles so they could get their 10 year old son his chicken tenders from Burger King!?! I love them, they are Christians even to the point of sending their son to a Christian school but the kid is very disrespectful to his parents and I have a hard time minding my tongue. The point of this rant is if I'm having a hard time accepting my relatives family whom I've known for nearly all my life into my BOL how can I accept another person/family?

I've told him they'd be welcome and that they'd have to pull their own weight but with his wife and son's attitude I know there'd be trouble.
I pray about this every night and the only thing I've come up with is to keep plugging away at getting ready .... physically and spiritually.

[monkeybird]

Benn, you've just written some of my own thoughts. Regardless, you cannot control adult behavior easily. After the PAW the last thing you need is someone so obviously afraid of life! However, I do have hope that some of these folks will suddenly realize they they will die a really horrible death if they don't get with the program.

Spoiled children are living evidence of a society falling apart. I like the belief that children join YOUR FAMILY when they were born. Not the other way around. Parents do not parent, they allow the child to call the shots.

I really don't think I could cope with either of those behaviors, in addition to all the other stress of trying to 'pull it together' and survive.

I've told him they'd be welcome and that they'd have to pull their own weight but with his wife and son's attitude I know there'd be trouble.

That's really between a rock and a hard place. How can you deny you close family members shelter. How do you cope with people in your group behaving that way. How do you cope with people who won't do their part and children who are spoiled and self centered?

[manowar]

i am a person who is comfortable in my own skin, people see me as an interesting person based on the life i have lived and i am comfortable around people, but i does not break my heart if the phone does not ring and i do not have to leave the homestead. i used to spend allot of time alone when i rodeoed and spent alot of time in the desert and mountains,always saw myself as a bug out loner type of guy.
now fast forward the last 10yrs here in canada and my wife, i see myself as a bug in person,especially after reading an article by the alpha rubicons on bugging out vs bugging in.
I now see,and i like how it was put that i will come together with folks after the event has happened, settlers in the early days lived apart but had the town to rely on.
i think the first year or two will be the hardest and most dangerous, survive that and i think you have er licke- the million dollar question is how to initially survive
manowar

[fallout boy]

trained with a gruop once or twice A long time ago. They were seroius and trained hard, i missed one or 2 of the meetings and nevr got called back abuot the next ones. i should hav e tooke it more seroius I guess

[Bearman202]

This came up on a radio program I listen to a lot. It's a book by Dale Brown, and deals with exactly this sort of thing. Read about it and see what you think.

http://www.megafortress.com/23.htm

[Cimarron]

Wait a minute guys/gals. Can we really say what we will be like after a collapse? Can we honestly say how we will act, what we will say, our decisions and judgements on others?

We sit here in our cozy way of life now, and talk of things in a PAW, SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, situation with most of us not comprehending what that life would really be like (including me) . Even our resident Military who served in 3rd world countries and seen the worst depravity of living conditions had at some time in the back of their mind knew, that if things worked out, at some point were going home, to a better life. If there is a collapse we aren't going 'home' our way of life just changed..maybe for a long time.

I would ask each of us to consider not drawing hard lines about how you feel. When things change, sometimes you have to change too. I believe a big part of surviving is being flexible. People will have to learn to adapt They might not be able to go buy a package of 'food' at Walmart but have to go hunt it up them selves. Or they might have to learn to trade something for that food, a skill, a resource some one else needs or what havya. Most of the posts I read here on S&P are very flexible/adaptable folks. You are already looking down the road at a possible life change and are learning, discussing change. living in a "group" could be part of that change.

LD3 mentioned "human nature" and some of the negative aspects of it, and you know what? He's right! There is in our history many examples of if.

But, let's not forget another side of that nature, human compassion. How many times have we seen human compassion toward a neighbor, a friend or relative, or sometimes even a total stranger. There are story upon story of people helping people. I'm not even talking about the USA, or Christians, or us Okies. All over we hear of people helping others. People stuck in a elevator, or snow storm. Coming to fight a house fire, or pick up the pieces after a severe storm. When the SHTF people have, and will ban together and get through bad situations.

Or just stopping to see if you could help that person broke down on the side of the road.

You all know of what I'm talking about. I could easily assume many of you have been on both sides of that situation.

Just some thoughts.

[1Admin]

Agree 110% on human compassion, but are you suggesting we RELAY on that?

Sure tornadoes and hurricanes in various parts of the country usually bring about folks from other- i.e, NON AFFECTED areas of the country to rally to support them. However what about when it's widespread? The box of canned goods people drop off at the Red Cross for flood victims- what if NO RESUPPLY was evident on the horizon? Would that change most people's behaviors? I think so.

I'm all for helping people, if you think about it, this board is ALREADY doing that- how often do you see the "I learned so much here" type posts. Well friends that doesn't mean that info was FREE, it just means you didn't pay for it. Their is a difference. Everything costs.

The difference won't show itself immediately when something large scale happens, as most will assume that the situation is temporary and Red Cross will be showing up soon with hot coffee and blankets. It will be only after a couple weeks that the real long term problems will show themselves. When the reality of the situation hits most of the populace, I think a good deal- did not say "all"- a good deal of the human compassion and helpfulness will disappear.

Your thoughts on this?

[1Admin]

trained with a gruop once or twice A long time ago. They were seroius and trained hard, i missed one or 2 of the meetings and nevr got called back abuot the next ones. i should hav e tooke it more seroius I guess

FB- I think you answered your own question/statement. Not picking on ya but I think your last statement indicates you learned something from the experience.

[Cimarron]

@ 1Admin

I think it would be a bad idea to rely on compassion of others. There are some that contain very little.
I think that through compassion/kindness that folks would achieve some degree of co-habitation, and cooperation.
A group working together for the benefit of the group. If I don't care about others making it or cannot see the benefits of working together then I have already decided to go it alone.

That's not to say people that try to make a group won't have bumps along the way..there will be.
There may be disagreements and even heated debates but I believe in the end that common sense and compromising will win. Weather it's a close knit group living in a BOL or a small community in the country working together.

In some small way I view the members here already in a group. At least of the same mindset.

And you're right. You are helping folks think ahead, discuss and plan, by having this forum platform.

Why?

[rockriver]

great thread.
i have a relative in the mountains... ww2 navy officer getting old and a college agriculture professor. sons and son in laws. are architect, navy officer -primarily helicopters, veterinarian (sp?) water engineer, city manager. g'kids are mostly 20 t0 30. several college athletes. strong conservative Christian family.
all live nearby except one son. houses have large basements looking down on valley. road is twisting narrow 2 lane road easily controlled. the women all cook well, home school, stacks of dehy food left from y2k great wheat to bread cooks.
when there's a project the men all show up and work hard. energetically. proudly.
they are lightly armed.
but this family group is tight. there are no trust issues. all know who the leader is and show respect. ww2 is awesome with a chain saw or running a business.
the community they live in reflect the above traits also.

the relationships have been built over a long time. trust.

[1Admin]

Cim- the trust and the helping each other within an ESTABLISHED GROUP is an expected part of being a part of a real, functioning group. I thought you were referring to relyng on the help of sheeple. My bad, I read the wrong thing into it. :(

Without a doubt we should rely on others within an ESTABLISHED functioning group for help when need be. However that means we have to already have enough built in the quote "emotional bank account" unquote of others within that group.

If we have spent little time really getting to know others in the group, if we have established ourselves as a "taker" in our mindset, actions and attitudes, we can -and should- expect LITTLE if anything from an established group.

Stephen Covey used the analogy of an "emotional back account" in his book "7 habits of highly effective people." In the group context this means if you are constantly unwilling to bend, don't expect others to also. If you are constantly unwilling to devote some of your time to group activities, work, training, etc. don't expect others to stand on their head when the time is right for you.

No one likes to get the feeling they are being used. Make sure you are paying respect to those that are helping you out.

[610Alpha]

I just listened to this survival pod cast talking about how to start communities (or groups). The lady brought up some interesting ideas that could bring the like minded people together which could lead to a group.

http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/building-community-with-marjory-wildcraft

Using the library or community center to show a movie or have a speaker do a presentation on something that is a part of self reliance or first aid or fill in the _____ that a prepper would be interested in. Obviously use OPSEC if you go this route and obviously don't do a presentation or movie that will completely blow OPSEC. I am sure someone will still say something even though I am saying use common sense. :)

[Irish-Tech]

My current group only consists of Family members. I could never see myself turning away other members of the family that actually made it to the location. I have a few friends that i know could add to the group, but i wont invite them because none are serious enough about prepping. Now if SHTF so quick i cant make it to my primary BOL and i have to hunker down. those same friends will become my new group. My biggest problem is that my BOL is 500 miles away and it will be impossible to get there if things happen fast. I monitor the news none stop and could pack up and be on the road in less than hour with everything i need. Just hope its enough. I do plan on moving closer to the BOL but that needs to wait a few years before i can afford to do so.

[Cimarron]

Admin-
No apologies needed you were just seeking clarification.

I meant to allude to folks here that state what they would and would not do if things go bad. But how do we really know what we'll do in hypothetical situations? We can make guesses and even make plans but it's also good to keep an open mind and be adaptable. Some times the best made plans can go to crap in a heart beat.

I agree, if someone was in an ESTABLISHED group they should have the mind set to "give as much as you take". Really this should be a no-brain-er but there's those out there that will not get it. If the time ever comes and I get to be in an ESTABLISHED GROUP I believe no one could say, I don't pull my own weight.
I don't take anything without offering something for it, and if I borrow something and break it, I buy another one to replace it.

I like Stephen Covey's work. I did a work-shop on "7habits of highly effective people" in 92' with the department I was in. Where I first learned about "paradigm shift".

[1Admin]

It's a good read. Many will think that sort of thing is too "touchy feeley" for our purposes but the concepts are the same. If I've "depleted the emotional back account" of a person or the group in general by being a taker, always being selfish, never acting in the group's best interests, etc. then I can expect people to treat me "in kind."

Everybody screws up, it's getting PAST that hump that few seem to be able to figure out how to do. Sweeping it under the rug isn't an option. It takes a lot to say "hell listen I screwed up, I've been selfish, etc." to a group of people. Most folks have too much pride involved that keeps them from making a simple gesture like that that would begin to fix the problem.

I think in a group setting we have to
1. Be able to recognize problems, preferably ahead of time. Yes people do act in patterns.
2. Be able to sit down and reconcile differences.
3. Be sensitive to how we come off to others, not just in the superficial- "He asked me to help dig that ditch and didn't say pretty please with sugar on top!! What a jerk!!" but more importantly how our ACTIONS (or lack thereof) come off to others.