Discussion of groups

[1Admin]

Let's start a discussion regarding survival groups.

Pros? Cons? Would you join one? (No I don't have one and not recruiting) :)

What would you have to offer a group? What would you expect out of a group? Just how much time, effort would you realistically be willing to give a group?

[qrprat77]

Pros: Many hands make light work.
You are with people who are already at least on the way to being with it.

Cons: individualism could lead to egoism.
Dependence on the group.
the more people who know you, the more likely you are to be discovered when we are label sedetious, treacherous, or whatever label TPTB will give us to justify forced compliance.

Personally, I think the greatest advantage could lie in a group of people that specifically doesn't band together when TSHTF. Think of it as a cadre of knowledge, a group of teachers that when the time comes rises up and shows people locally how to get their collective heads out of their hineys!
Or to coin a phrase:
I think we should train globally and act locally.

[EX121]

I have started prelimanary talks with some of the other folks in our Search & Rescue group. So far it is just a general talk about being prepared for a short duration natural disaster. One friend has let on that his family has a few food preps, etc.
So I'm open to the idea of a group as I don't think my wife and I can go it alone for a long term.
I would expect the group to come in to the group with enough stuff to support their family for x period of time.
Going to have to give it a bit more thought.

[Rmplstlskn]

My previous post may have sparked this one... LOL!

Let's start a discussion regarding survival groups.

Pros? Cons? Would you join one? (No I don't have one and not recruiting) :)

What would you have to offer a group? What would you expect out of a group? Just how much time, effort would you realistically be willing to give a group?

First off, I think a GROUP really should be a "community;" people who live on adjoining land and willingly work in cooperation on "community commons," that being security, utilities (less house power which is individual), and possibly even livestock, crops, gardens, orchards, family needs (community home schooling). The rest is on your own and flexible as the community mutually agrees to.

I think a GROUP that only meets now and then, sends emails back and forth, with some remote "bug out location" that gets visited occasionally is far less ideal than a GROUP of people who are living ON SITE and doing it. A JWR "Patriot" type thing is also highly unlikely for most of us and is rife with possible problems as the REAL stress of an event hits home emotionally, mentally and physically and everyone realizes how UNPREPARED they really are and that this is FOR REAL and LONG TERM...

I also thing a "part-time" GROUP will have a HUGE startup hurdle to get over, and things will be missed, and it may be too late then to go get whatever they forgot about or missed in their plans, or where someone "dropped the ball" on... If they are not doing it FULL TIME, then the unexpected things will be a huge problem...

Then there are the PERSONALITIES... Most people can get along good for a short time, but long term is where the REAL character begins to show... A GROUP will be on short-term hospitality... A community will be past that and into long-term TEAM & TRUST building...

Then the REALITIES of our modern society:
I know with me, I may have room for an extra family, but no way do I have what it takes to invite a GROUP over, nor do I have the resources to support a group (farm land, utilities, land). So if others were as like-minded as I, with a community in mind, either someone would have the land that would support a GROUP, or land would have to be found and bought, maybe as a TRUST. But to buy land, most would have to sell what they have now, which requires a functioning economy, before they can pool money for a land purchase, which means the TIME WINDOW is closing fast, and I believe most of us will not make that window for any community...

So for me, a GROUP is cool and all, and FEELS good (everyone has each others back, so to speak), but I think that such a GROUP really working is questionable. And a GROUP BOL needs more than just what one can haul in a trailer or U-HAUL when the flag goes up... SOMEONE has to be DOING IT already on the BOL land with crops and orchards in ground and producing, and then is there TRUST enough to pre-position all the stuff a REMOTE group member needs at the BOL without fear that they will be given the "Do NOT TRESPASS" sign when the time comes to bug out? There are only a handful of people that I would trust to "store my stuff." One can't have some remote "Jeremiah Johnson" CABIN in the woods somewhere and then expect it all to just COME TOGETHER when everyone starts showing up...

As for what one has to offer a group? That is a tough one with OPSEC in mind... Most of us do not publicly post any DETAILS of our stuff and situation for good reason, as this is a PUBLIC forum and who knows who is watching it. All I can say is I offer a wide variety of skills and the equipment needed to do those skills. I confidently say that I am a damn good mechanic/electrician/plumber/carpenter/engineer, among other things. There are even supplies for skills that I am not as good as I would like to be, but have it if needed, such as medical. Am I a PIMP-DADDY of survival, having all I need, and all I would hope to offer a group? No... But I have confidence that my family of three would not be a burden to any group or community... Although I am HEALTHY, I am not in the best of physical shape (overweight), but I am not lazy or shy from hard work, as my neighbors can attest to as they see me doing all kinds of projects around the homestead... And what I don't know, after decades of learning about this stuff, I have the intellect and capacity to learn quickly and do well... I'd say that would be desirable for any "community." My "stuff" is not cheap crap and is quality stuff any group would appreciate. We would also come with food to get by for a good time...

What to expect? Personally, I have hung out with the type of people that start and live in "intentional communities," and although they be nice people and SINCERE, my religious beliefs would not be appreciated in those groups I suspect... They tend to be earth-goddess-based or "new age" and my "ONE GOD, and all must come though HIM" faith would NOT fly well with them. But I do respect their community ideals (gardens/childcare/school) and thought seriously about joining one years ago... So any group that I would consider seriously would ideally be "Messianic Hebrew Roots" or at least strongly "Christian" as long as they are cool with different viewpoints on what Scripture teaches, like we keep Saturday as a Sabbath, so we chill out and rest on that day, while they keep a Sunday, which to me is just another work day. Matter of fact, such a thing might work well as they have no problem working of Saturday and we have no problem working on Sunday, they don't keep the Leviticus 23 Festivals of YHWH so we have it off and we will work on easter, christmas and the such...

I would also expect 100% commitment to the community... Each pulling equal weight, or at least the full weight they were capable of. The recognition of a group of JUDGES, chosen by Scriptural standards, to decide conflicts. A Leadership Council to make decisions that affect the community as a whole. Equal financial burden for community commons, less mutually agreed upon charity. Serious commitment to security and risking life for community defense. Willing to make hard decisions on life and death when it all goes south... And key to any community from not being endlessly at a stalemate, a REPUBLIC form of operation where DEMOCRACY (mobacracy) is rejected.

If we were to find such a community, or find a core GROUP with TABS of merit to prove it, wanting to start a community, I would sell my property and move just about anywhere that is viable, hauling all my stuff along with me... But as I said in another post, it may already be too late for these IDEALS of mine...

Rmpl

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Pros? Strength in numbers and skills and the ability to bring different views and thoughts to issues

Cons? Trust, putting the women of my family or my family in general in someone elses hands is a big issue. The "survivalist" community has more than it's fair share of nuts and criminals. I know thats gonna upset some folks but I'm not saying anything thats not true and no I'm not passing judgement, well yes I am because thats what Dads/Husbands are supposed to do!

Would you join one? Maybe

What would you have to offer a group? I'm in good shape, hard worker, Military and other life long skills I don't discuss on forums, outdoorsman, hunter/gatherer, I'm drop dead gorgeous and if we had something like one of them firemans calendars for survivalist, I would be Mr. July! (or I have a sense of humor, you pick:)

What would you expect out of a group? Equal parts of taskings or items of value, security, mutual aid, commited to goals

Just how much time, effort would you realistically be willing to give a group?

Honestly 2 full days a month and maybe 2-3 evenings month until a few years from now at which time it could increase

[qrprat77]

PS,
I would say that Rmpl and I are in broad agreement. I would rather see this community break forth spontaneously after The Event, triggered by a smaller group of people with a broad skillset. Turn the zombies before they turn on you.

[Rmplstlskn]

PS,
I would say that Rmpl and I are in broad agreement. I would rather see this community break forth spontaneously after The Event, triggered by a smaller group of people with a broad skillset. Turn the zombies before they turn on you.

I read an internet novel on AR15.com many years ago about a "neighborhood" that banded together when some kind of EMP or something happened, I forget the name of it... Had some kind of Karate guy in it as the main dude... But it had a scenario such as yours, the "Train globally, act locally" type of thing, where a core group of people pulled a rag-tag neighborhood into a "fortress" community, but in honesty, it was full of wishful thinking and huge amounts of LUCK, even after the BAD THINGS that happened with the less-committed and selfish people of the neighborhood.

I think back on the "suburban neighborhoods" I have lived in over my 45 years and I can't think of any that would "come together" into a cohesive, functional community when it all went bad... Especially since EVERYONE was unprepared, under-equipped and probably had a weeks worth of food in their home, if even that. Now that I live more rural, the same thing applies, but just not so extreme. I have good neighbors, some who cattle ranch, some who have large gardens, who know how to shoot & hunt, but are NOT ready for a long-tern collapse. I also have some neighbors that are LAZY and sloughful or of a moral base that could easily justify TAKING what is yours if their family was in need, by any means. So how it will all work out here if and when bad times arrive is QUESTIONABLE and I don't like the odds... But if that is what I am given, I will try to make the best of it...

Rmpl

[Rmplstlskn]

Here is a guy I like and admire, Pastor Dowell, who is doing the "community" thing in TN near KY. I like him and his doctrines and beliefs, but I am concerned his group is too centered on a "Pastor-type" figure as the main LEADER, which might be too much power in one man's hands... Still evaluating them before I think seriously about buying land next to them, or from them... But they seem to have a good thing going... Check out his other videos to see more on what they are doing there. Here is an INTRO...

http://youtu.be/POotpNckpic

Rmpl

[Hidden Agenda]

I read an internet novel on AR15.com many years ago about a "neighborhood" that banded together when some kind of EMP or something happened, I forget the name of it... Had some kind of Karate guy in it as the main dude...
Rmpl

I think you are referring to "Lights Out", but I could be mistaken.

[MustangGal]

While I can see benefits from a group, I am concerned about getting mixed up in something that isn't what I thought it was.... like some sort of militia that is plotting to over throw the government.

I would also be concerned about faux preppers, pretending to put in the work, while planning to mooch or steal from others in the group. I guess I am just generally very skeptical of people.

[protus]

I think you are referring to "Lights Out", but I could be mistaken.

your not .thats the name of it.

[protus]

No one can go it alone. History has proven that.
However a real group in these current times is a unicorn i think.
Mostly because of the economy and what people have dropped their $$ for the last 10+ years.
anyway.

Pros of a group-
community,safety in numbers, mutual aid, the ability to collectively think and solve larger problems that are above a single persons abilities.
Cons- ego,pride, greed, and laziness. aka basic group dynamics.

The main thing is what kind of group are folks wishing or wanting. Do they want a lose band of e- mailers,or contacts for short term events or a JWR style retreat group?

The issue with the JWR style or BOL style is like rmpl said is that there has to be boots on the ground living at the BOL or at least cultivating the area for sustainability. Another is Trust, like posted. Do you trust those there or if none are in place, to preposition supplies only to find out you cant get to it because of security issues or those in place closed the gate.

I think for the most part, those concerns can be cured with time. Time spent at the location and time spent with those at the location( aka other group members) .

The other style of group IMHO is great for events like , you broke down on I95 and need a ride, or hurricane. However even then, time, needs to be spent to cultivate the relationship between the group members or else you wont know who is who. Again, like the JWR one, is trust. I only see time as the answer, and time spent with other members fixing that one.

Seems time is a main thing in all of this..lol


Honestly, if i was to have a BOL and i was to form a group. It would consist of family, with an invite to only a few people i know already know, to pre place items if they wish, and to have a secondary location to their own to fall back on if need be.


either way both take a ton of time, trust, and compromise on all parties to be successful.

[monkeybird]

I agree with MustangGal. I really don't trust people in general. While I'm very social and attend many activities, I'm basically a loner. I go mental if I can't have a certain amount of time ALONE!

I'm also independent. I make my own decisions and solve my own problems. Big issues my husband and I discuss and decide together. I would do very badly following orders from someone I did not respect.

I worry about bullies. Some think they are leaders and lord it over everyone else. They're judgement is poor and their ability to listen is also. I simply would not be able to tolerate a situation like that.

Having been an E.R. nurse for many many years, I know that my expertise would be very useful. I also have advanced degrees specializing in Infection Control, that would be useful.

So far my group is my family. Just can't seem to get beyond the trust issue. While all of you sound wonderful online. How do I really know you're who you say you are. Also, people you meet and who company you enjoy regularly are totally different people if you have to live with them.

A few years ago I agreed to be a room mate for a very good friend on a cruise to Alaska. After the first 3 days or so, I promised myself NEVER again. I'd known this person for years. The moral is you really don't know someone til you've lived with them. Ask any married person.

I'd love a group, but it needs to be a loose group, not one of those "I give the orders and you obey" groups.

[SCinPNW]

I started a post last night, but then did something and lost my post. Since then, many have said what I had typed. I like the idea of having a group but am not comfortable with just hooking up with strangers, or even some of the people that we call our friends. I like our friends, but am not sure living with them would work out so well. As Protus said, my first choice is family.

One thing that I would like is a losely associated group of like minded people that worked together to increase skills and knowledge. My primary skill would be cooking. I can cook anything from scratch, and I have at last 4 different solutions to cooking in the event things go south. However, I would like to have more skills than just cooking. I am fairly proficient with a handgun, but really need to work on having a better understanding and comfort level with long guns. I can garden, but really am just a dabbler with the gardening and need to work on it.

Great thread!
SC

[Rmplstlskn]

I like our friends, but am not sure living with them would work out so well. As Protus said, my first choice is family.

I have seen this mentioned several times and i wonder if this is being over-personalized... These would NOT be people you LIVE WITH, under your roof, like family would... These are better called NEIGHBORS, but with a mutally-agreed focus.

My idea of a "community" is like a small neighborhood of INDIVIDUAL HOMES within a larger property boundary that could be secured (non-public property).

I agree, most people would go NUTS living with people that are not family (and even family drives us nuts)... But I would think most of us get along well with our GOOD neighbors... Same principle...

Rmpl