Your shtf go to rifle

[Grand58742]

P.S.S. ... 22LR can/will kill a human target at over 100 yds (up to ~200).

So can a bow and arrow, doesn't mean it's going to be my first choice in long range firepower.

I'm just saying...

[jimmertoons]

I got hooked on the FAL a bunch of years ago when a buddy purchased one. I built a shorty, 16" barrel with a short butt stock. It's the same length as my Romanian AK. I topped it with a Weaver Extreme 1.5-4.5 scope. The only thing I don't like about it is the complaining my shooting friends do because of the muzzle blast. I've got it tuned so it eats anything I put into it, but it really likes my handloads using 168 gr A-max bullets over TAC powder. It is a little heavy, but confidence with your chosen gun is of utmost importance.

[Briar Wabbit]

Interesting tidbit...where did you get that information?

Thanks

The first time I heard that statistic was way back in the late 1970's ... It has been "true" since WWII (one exception was the ~1000 yard mass trench volleys, of WWI ... harassing fire).

I am having some difficulty locating the "official study" ATM, as it was published before the internet took hold ... but references, are easy to find.

http://usagidojo.blogspot.com/2011/03/fight-like-you-train-train-like-you.html

Hess further cites information from wars ranging from the War of Austrian Succession (1740 - 1748) up through WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and our recent engagements in Afghanistan and Iraq that Infantrymen most frequently engage the enemy at ranges under 100 yards. What counted--and still counts--in these engagements, was not long-distance accuracy but volume of fire.

[Briar Wabbit]

But I am NOT trying to argue that an M4 or an AR-10 would not smear me, and my dinky Henry AR-7 !
(toe-to-toe, or "at range") ... What I *AM* saying is that an "in-pack" 22LR changes your entire profile and your mobility and you mission endurance ... SIGNIFICANTLY.

I am just saying that I have given the issue of "if and which" gun, a great deal of thought, for many years and I would say that "who sees who first" and "who does what first" and "why" makes a huge difference, in any outcome.

If was manning a militia road-block? ... I'd want an AR-10, *and* a drum-fed AK *and* a 12GA Auto in the proximate tree-line ...

Sheltering in place? ... 12GA.

Scooting across town? ... !2GA, folder, with a daylight laser.

Going Mobile, and gonna keep going for as long as possible (and as far as possible) ???

Henry ... US Survival Rifle.

With the difference, in weight, between the Henry, and an M4 ... I can carry up to three 180 tablet bottles of Survival Food Tablets ... that's 45 days of (admittedly meager) rations.

Even the 9 days that 3 mainstay bars provide, could make the difference in reaching the coast (my preferred AO).

You can't eat bullets ... and live.

There WILL be armed helicopters ... WITH optics ... trying to protect the sheep from the wolves ...
... One word ... "Katrina" .

Remember that guy, in Iraq, who was gunned down (from the air) because they thought his video camera might be a rocket launcher?

Dudes! ... *I* am (now) "Just Sayin" ... The better equipped that you appear to be ? ... The better armed that you appear to be ?? ... The quicker you'll get yer pee-pee shot off ...

... Keep it in yer pants and lie low ! (kids).

I wish you the best (or I would not even bother).

A SUCCINCT SUMMARY (for mobility and endurance).

1) Stealth and visual profile: You will not be identified as a threat or as a source of booty.
1a) Report: 22LR subsonics make very little noise ... do not broadcast your position.

2) Weight vs. Endurance: Burn less calories, carry more rounds and tools. Go longer/further.
... Travel faster ... consume less water ... carry MORE water (helps you find more).
... More rounds equals more squirrels, bunnies, pidgeons ... less meat damage.

3) A head-shot, with a 22LR will kill ... but that "need" is far less likely, with a 22LR.

4) there will be lots of dead, bloated Rambos, and M4s and AKs scattered all over the road-sides ...
... take yer pick ... if you can stay in a bush, for two weeks? ... guns will be easy to "find".

I would simply concentrate on sources of clean water ... and food ... in the "initial phase" ...
... After that? ... Things WILL get easier and easier. (as others die-off).

[1Admin]

If things really get bad- EVERYONE is a target. EVERYONE has something that a BG will be looking to take.

A guy with an AR7, or a musket, or a knucklehead in chain mail (sp?) with a broadsword, or Bart Simpson with a slingshot and a menacing look in his eyes will be no different to a BG than someone with an AR or an AK.

This "If all I'm carrying is a rock people will leave me alone" thing is a fantasy.

[Briar Wabbit]

Well, I can only speak for myself, but,
If I see a guy walking across my pasture with an m4, I'd prolly shoot him, while I had the chance, rather than to have him nail me two days later, while I'm on the latrine.

But, If I see some guy with a pack and he is not loitering or or doing recon ... I'd prolly, just as soon, let him pass and continue on his way.

I think that crossing private (or occupied) property is one of the most fertile situations, where your "vibe" is going to make a difference.

Certainly, an airborne observer is going to tag you differently ... if you a "brandishing" an assault rig.

Like I said before ... "Let me know if I was wrong, after a few weeks in the fur-ball".

I'll be sleeping by day ... near a large marsh.

You're right ... I'm wrong ... blast away !

[Fanderal]

If things really get bad- EVERYONE is a target. EVERYONE has something that a BG will be looking to take.

A guy with an AR7, or a musket, or a knucklehead in chain mail (sp?) with a broadsword, or Bart Simpson with a slingshot and a menacing look in his eyes will be no different to a BG than someone with an AR or an AK.

This "If all I'm carrying is a rock people will leave me alone" thing is a fantasy.

TOO true, there are those who will bash your head in just see IF you have anything they want, they won't need to confirm it first.

Better to not be seen at all if possible, otherwise, look like taking what you have would be too risky. So play both sides, don't look like you have much, but at the same time make it clear that what you have isn't worth the pain involved in taking it.

Thugs are just like Coyotes, they are basically scavengers, they have no morals, and will take whatever they want, but they balance that against a highly refined sense of self-preservation. A Coyote will not try to get my chickens, if my dog is around, even if there are 5 or 6 yotes and only one Blue Heeler; the yotes CAN NOT risk injury because no one will take them to the VET, and the pack will turn on them. Human scavengers are not much different. Weakness gets you killed or at least replaced.

Be as invisible as possible, and carry the biggest stick you can get away with.

Fanderal

[1Admin]

Excellent summary-

Be as invisible as possible, and carry the biggest stick you can get away with.

[Elza]

My main go to is my M1 Garand. It’s a ’43 Springfield that I have had for 30 years.

Likes: In 30 years and countless rounds it has never failed to fire or feed. Dirt, ice, mud, virtually nothing will keep it from functioning. It will reach out and touch someone if needed.

Dislikes: .30-06 is a great round but not as common as 5.56 or 7.62 (x51 or x39). A bit long and ungainly for CQB.


Some don’t like the 8 round clip. But if one is experienced with it reloading can be accomplished very quickly. Like any other weapon it has it’s drawbacks but I have others for different purposes.

[Grand58742]

Edited for thread drift. The original topic has been moved away from and I helped move it that way.

For that, my apologies to the forum.

[Rmplstlskn]

And the difference in the two is? One is armed, passing through on his merry way. One is unarmed passing through on his merry way, but could have a rifle broken down and concealed in his/her pack?

I think the DIFFERENCE he was intending is that one was ARMED on his property, with NO PACK or SUPPLIES, and the other was with a PACK... One has no other reason for being there except to scout out and/or look for PREY, the other is just passing through...

[Patriot Prepper]

This is an excellent thread with great responses.

I wish I had time to do a video response to this question. Because it is something that every prepper needs to keep reevaluating. Accessing your weapons and skills is critical. At some point preppers may want to add on or change a system. I am always looking for new weapon systems and improving my skills. Great job protus.

[Dr Manhattan]

my hi point 995ts. shoots a 9mm round. ten round magazine capacity. not the best choice i know, but, im not rich, and its what i could afford. any thoughts or experiences with this weapon would be appreciated.

[shooter]

I am one of those guys that must by necessity respond with two answers.
1. I work as a consultant in the oil field. I spend upwards of 200 days a year away from my retreat. In the event that TSHTF when I am “at work” my rifle is an older Colt H-Bar Match carbine. Between classes, matches, and on my own fun the base gun functioned without a stoppage or breakdown for 12,000 documented rounds. At 12K, I replaced the barrel (with a factory new 16” ) and gas tube. (the old ones went into my spare parts locker) Rebuilt the bolt and installed a new recoil spring, and then took it to a 800 round 3 day shoot with no problems. This rifle is equipped with NV compatible Eotech and a better grip. I installed a short rail for one of my surefire lights, which is always in my go bag. I use only high quality mags and keep a bore snake and bottle of lube on board at all times. I use a Specter sling that can be used single point or rigger for across the chest/back patrol . I carry 6ea 30 round mags and 3ea 20 round mags in a discrete black case that looks like a roll of construction drawings. I carry this rig thru the hotel lobby every day without a second look. I would be walking “Home” so my situation is the same but different from some other folks I have a new left hip and weight is a real factor for me.
2. At home I have traded my DPMS AR 10 for a POF P308 which is a piston gun. I believe this change addresses all or most of the concerns folks may have with the AR platform. This rifle is a blend carbine/DMR with a middle weight barrel it currently has back up irons with a Night Force scope in a Armalite mount. This rifle is light enough to move around with and heavy enough to shoot well. Lots of high quality mags and plenty of good ammo to feed it I feel it meets my needs. No need to rehash the 308 information here.

[errn]

Interesting thread.
At home I'd want my Garand backed up with a long range hitter--maybe a .340 Weatherby. Travelling..................how about a .30 Carbine M-1 backed up with a large bore revolver. I saw a guy the other day put 9 rounds of .454 into a 9 inch circle at 20 yards ('course he said that was about as much of that as he wanted that day--then went back to putting break-in rounds through a .45)

As I said on a different thread, desirable weapon systems are kind of situation dependent. If I'm going to be hunting rabbits I want a .22 or .410, if I'm hunting elk I want a .300 Magnum, if I'm hunting people I want a Garand, If they are hunting me, I want every thing.
What do I have? Well...............I haven't prepared enough yet!!

good luck,
don