Your shtf go to rifle

[Hawkeye]

Mine -




My wife's -

[Rmplstlskn]

It has been awhile since my previous posts and I have made some changes to my MAIN defensive arsenal, so I submit my update...

I have two "GOTO" guns... One for HOME (BUG IN) and one for BUG OUT. The HOME carbine is my DSA SA-58 FN-FAL. It is powerful (.308) and has never failed me. I use Winchester Supreme 150g. Silvertip (extremely accurate in my FAL) for real work and all kinds of QUALITY surplus for training and fun shoots. I bought buttloads of QUALITY mags when they were cheap and I have basic web gear to support a HOME DEFENSE duty. But due to the <200yds DISTANCES of most likely engagements here in VA (heavily wooded with some open pasture land), the FAL and .308 ammo is too HEAVY for my uses if I have to E&E or BUG OUT... And I don't have good enough web gear for a true bug out event with the FAL, so it will be left at home, if it comes to that.


I used to have a Trijicon TA-11D ACOG on the FAL, to help my crappy eyes see targets at a distance, but I found the ACOG slower than I would like for most "real world" distances here in VA (out west it would be different) and I believed it could result in a live or die in a few miliseconds scenario and I chose not to accept the speed delay for magnification. The Aimpoint COMP-M3 red dot, with it's 2MOA dot, does allow me to be "minute of man" accurate out to 300 yards, which is OK for me. I just remember my holdovers...

That leaves my E&E/BUG OUT carbine... It is based on a semi-KISS principle to keep it lightweight...


This AR has been flawlessly reliable with all kinds of ammo, even Wolf. Built with quality TESTED parts. I have lots of parts, if needed, and some "must have" parts are already set to travel with me (Colt complete bolt in Magpul grip, some springs, etc...). I have QUALITY ammo for it, lots of QUALITY mags, and some robust web gear to support it, that has been tested for usefulness and placement in training. It is LIGHTWEIGHT and has everything, short of NV technology & suppression, that I will need to defend myself and family. My GOTO ammo is Black Hills MK262 MOD1 with 77g bullet and real military IMI M855 62g. steel-core. The MK262 is highly accurate at the distances I need...

The 4MOA dot on the Aimpoint Micro H1 is bigger than I would like for distance, but for its intended ranges here in VA, it is FAST and robust, as Larry Vickers has shown on his TV shows. The muzzle brake works amazing and even keeps flash down, a good compromise. I do have a McCormick single-stage trigger in it, which is fast and like glass breaking... SNAP! Maybe get a Giessele one day... And a suppressor can...

Another important reason why I chose an AR for BUG OUT is that my wife also carries an AR, so we have the same ammo, parts and mags. My daughter has a Ruger 10/22 Carbine and several 30-rd mags loaded with CCI Stingers.

I don't forsee any changes in the future from what I now have... My goal is to keep the ammo levels up as I shoot them...

Rmpl

[brokedownbiker]

For right now, my main SHTF rifle is an old Olympic Arms AR (let the Oly Arms haters begin!) with a collapsible stock. It is a gun I know like the back of my hand, I've owned it for many years plus I carried an M-16 while in the Army; it has been utterly reliable irregardless of what I feed it (as long as the cartridge isn't lacquer coated- it does not like those at all).

At some point, if I have time, I would love to step up to a M1A scout rifle but the price for the rifle plus mag's, accessories, and stocking up ammo is prohibitive right now.

[Briar Wabbit]

First, know that I own an SR-25 (AR-10), several ARs, Combat Shotguns, a slew of rimfires and a few fine pellet rigs ... and more than one slingshot ... I do not own any bows or cross-bows ... I do own a sharp stick and a few big rocks, too.

... I am 52 years old ... Started with pellet rifles, when I was ~8yo ... BB guns (plural) before that. ... Had my own .22 and a .410 before I was 14 ... A 12GA auto at 14yo and my first Colt AR, at 16yo ...

I've done lots of camping and hiking ... some patrols ... been to sea ... lived on the street, for more than a season.

... Here is a repost, from my reply to the rimfire sticky, on this forum/section ... I am not talking about a shelter-in-place gun ... this gun is all about mobility and stealth .... here is the re-post

~~~~~~~~ Snip ~~~~~~~ paste ~~~~~

I have been building a system of modular/scalable packs, based on modular scalable "mission kits" ...

After my expedition trauma kit blossomed into a ~15 pound portable infirmary, that would serve a small villiage, I quickly realized that WEIGHT (on all scales) was going to be a primary consideration.

I have owned a great many firearms, over the years (every action and category). I own several ARs, in several calibres and have lots of patrol and camping experience (but still have much to learn, regarding field-craft).

What I can opine, with authority, is that water, food, and mobility count most, if you are not able to "shelter-in-place".
Of course, your body core-temperature comes even before water, when the climate is extreme.

My point is that I know guns and I could afford and take and use ANY gun ... But, for the Bunny Apocalypse? ... 22LR subsonic would RULE! (for my own, personal, methods and philosophy, thanks).

I have chosen the Henry US Survival Rifle (yes, JUNK, I know) first, because of weight ... 2nd, because of the chambering (22LR) ... 3rd, because of packable size ... Additionally, cost, simplicity, limited tactical value, and ~low maint.

It is not a handgun ... Has no NFA Class-III features ... So, pack transport should not pique "enforcement", in almost any state.

Subsonic rounds (much less noisy) will not cycle, in this Henry AR-7 but, will work fine, in single-shot mode.

Also, Considering that this rifle, with a red-dot scope, and a 2-6x compact backup optic, and one brick (~500rds) of premium ammo weighs ... ?? ... Almost 8 pounds, including scope mounts? ... Imagine how long you could subsist on 8 pounds of granola bars + jerky !! ... More than 72 hours, fer sher !

And, BTW, remember that you must harvest, purify and carry a full gallon of drinking water, daily, ... And, ONE gallon of water weighs? ... 8 pounds.

So ... *IF* I decide to pack a gun (at all), it would not likely be in my 72 hour go-kit ... but I would (reluctantly) consider this rifle for my "Open Expedition Pack" which is designed to sustain, very comfortably, for 10+ days ... and, absolutely, will provide 30+ days of rationned "harsh" subsistence, and ... will provide the toolage to extend and improve a permanent campsite, under favorable conditions.

If you can harvest a bunny/tree-rat/pidgeon, just 3x/week ... one brick of 22LR should last a decent marksman up to one year ! (if all else goes well).

But, to my mind, guns are much like fishing kits, in a survival ("hits the fan") type scenario ... having redundant and reliable means to regulate your core temperature and to acquire, carry, and purify drinking water are vastly more pressing than hunting and fishing, which should only come into play after your (at least 3 days) food rations have been consumed. In the early stages? ... Fishing and hunting are a distraction, at best, and armed confrontation would best be totally avoided, at ALL cost ... Hunker in place, for several days, before moving ... Stay off the roads, rails, easments and waterways ... Best of luck (and blessings).


=Elmer= (Shhh!)
~~~~~~~~

[Deep Operator]

I considered two things when arriving at my choices for weapons.

A. Reliabilty

B. Availability of ammo and parts.

So with that in mind.

1. Russian built(made in the motherland) AK 47. 7.62 x 39mm. Powerful round, plentiful, and unsurpassed reliability!! Abundant battlefield testing, especially all sorts of guerilla style situations.

2. Glock Model 21( 45 acp pistol). Again, a powerful round that is commonplace. Also, Glock makes a very rugged weapon with very good reliability. The 45acp has been around since before WWI and has ample power. All the arguments for and against have been made, but I think the pros outweigh the cons.

Alternates that I am equally happy using.

1A. FN-FAL, a larger round and very strong stopping power. I have a made in Belgium model(FN built)

2A. S&W .357 magnum, again reliable, powerful, and commonplace round. It is a 6 inch barrel variant.

1B. 12 gauge shotgun is always great to have, when in doubt model. 12gauge, again powerful and plentiful round.

[cnacowboy]

I to Have a Centry arms ar15 evereyone ive talked to says i payed to much for it but oh well. ive only put about 300 rds threw it ive used pmc, tula, and hot shot ammo and did not have any problems with non of the ammo the only thing i dont like about my ar15 is the rear and front sights are adjustable but there had to adjust. i got the cintron sporter it looks like the veitman style m16 wich is what i wanted so i am happy with it but i am thinking of buying a ak also. as for pistols i have a mp 45 made by smith and wesson and will be buying a 1911 in the future ive been thinking of the new ruger 1911 or another rock iland 1911

[ssonb]

"I have a friend" who has a Bushmaster ORC in 308 or 7.62x51. We have installed three different scopes before finally selecting a Nikon 223 2x8x32 with the RAT (rapid action turret). We have shot a mixture in the same mags of wolf,silver bear,brown bear ,GA arms,pmc, winchester sp and 125 gr light reloads that is loaded for a light weight Ruger M77 mark II ... after about 200 rnds So far there have been no FTF or FTE. the gun functions as dependable as my Saiga 308-1, no hickups .The only gripe We had was the trigger ,it is very long and drawn out ,but that has been solved with the instlation of a Timney trigger, Four pound letoff with almost no overtravel. I spect this will be my... I mean his go to longarm.

[hua man]

.30/30 lever action. Black rifles with lots of whiz-bang gizmos look nice and some accessories help target placement, but I want something to help hide in a crowd. ARs and AKs will usually stand out. A deer rifle not so much.

A pump 12 gauge shotgun. Versatile in ammo selection- anything from birdshot to breaching rounds, and then some.

Pistol is a S&W 39. Single stack 9 MM. Laugh if you want, but I can hit what I'm aiming at. It's backed by S&W .357 revolver. Not as good with it.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

.30/30 lever action. Black rifles with lots of whiz-bang gizmos look nice and some accessories help target placement, but I want something to help hide in a crowd. ARs and AKs will usually stand out. A deer rifle not so much.
Seen a "black" updated 30-30 the other day, it was nice. Have you tried them flextip hornadys yet? I'm curious about the true performance
A pump 12 gauge shotgun. Versatile in ammo selection- anything from birdshot to breaching rounds, and then some.
Just built a 20ga remington with a black lightweight synthetic youth stock 21inch choked barrel and extension tube for a guy who's 6'4 and 240lbs to be his "versitle" go to gun

Pistol is a S&W 39. Single stack 9 MM. Laugh if you want, but I can hit what I'm aiming at. It's backed by S&W .357 revolver. Not as good with it.

Nothing wrong with your selections, had a 39, didnt like the trigger but thats just me. Sounds like you got what ya need, aint no one laughing!

[WiseOwl]

At the moment...S&W 4006 TSW.....a real hand cannon with a "slingshots" recoil.......I am not as good as I want to be with it but its on me 24/7 and anything under 30 feet I can smack...

Also a Mossberg 500 Pump 12G......I enjoy shooting this one a lot...it has the shorter more "home defense designed" barrel.....I feel as if I am surgical with it...

Looking at Ruger 10/22 or the Mossberg Tactical .22 for my next buy...(both under $250)

I really want an AK.....or if I could just splurge and get the LWRC .308.....but I will stay a dreamer!

[Briar Wabbit]

I own an SR-25 (AR-10) ... Several M4s ... Have also carried and packed them ...
... Just reiterating ... beating that drum ... Compact rimfire and evasion ...
*IF* you are going mobile ... THINK !

I might consider a 12GA, to reach the edge of town, but I would pitch-it, ASAP.

1) Henry AR-7 USSR
2) Marlin Papoose
3) Ruger carbine in a BC Folder stock

The Henry is the lightest and the most compact, by a significant margin.

Here is the part that I think most "survivalists" just don't seem to realize ...

1) IF you cannot fit a firearm INSIDE your pack? ... Then you will be forced to "brandish"/display it ...
2) IF a helicopter spots you, from the air? ... u will be tagged as a "combatant" (and snuffed).
3) IF any gummit responders intercept you? ... They will take any weapons they see ...
4) IF *anyone* sees that you are well armed ... they will guess you have other supplies . (Target!).
5) I have already mentionned weight (and size) ... but ya SURE can carry LOTS more rds of 22LR !!

And WELL over 80ft/lbs (energy) @ 100+ yds

= OK ... I'll shut up =

[Grand58742]

5) I have already mentionned weight (and size) ... but ya SURE can carry LOTS more rds of 22LR !!

And WELL over 80ft/lbs (energy) @ 100+ yds

= OK ... I'll shut up =

80 ft/lbs of muzzle energy for the .22 LR

1300 for the 5.56mm 16x power over .22 LR (can be concealed by breaking it into two pieces or collapse the stock)
1560 for the 7.62x39mm 19.5x power over .22 LR (can be concealed by using folding stock)
2100 for the 7.62x51mm 26x power over .22 LR (okay, got me here, can't conceal this easily)

So, you need 16 rounds of .22 LR to equal the energy of one 5.56
20 rounds of .22 to equal the energy of a 7.62 Soviet
26 rounds of .22 to equal a .308

And significantly decreased range with the .22 LR versus the others. I couldn't get the weight of an individual .22 LR, but I'm pretty sure 16 rounds are going to weigh close to what one 5.56mm will and so on and so forth. And I would rather send two rounds of .308 downrange at a target at 300 meters instead of trying to send 52 rounds of .22 LR at 100 meters. But that's just me. I mean, you'd need a tactical wheelbarrow to carry around all that .22 as opposed to being selective on your shots and carrying a basic load of the others.

What's in your wallet?

[Fanderal]

For me it would depend on what S is hitting which F....

In the 7.62X51 class, how about a Keltech RFB, it gives you an 18" barrel in a 26" package. You could hide that as easily as an AK folder.
(unfortunately the $$$ for an RFB are NOT in my wallet :-( ....)

JM2C
Fanderal

[Briar Wabbit]

@Grand (tru-all-dat) ...

But ... I am actually carrying all this around ... regularly ... there would not be room in my pack for my M4, even if it would (almost) fit (broken down) ... Forget the extra 3x weight.

AND ... I can carry the AR-7 ... NOW ... Every day ... my pack and my AR-7 will be with me ... unless a visit to a Gummit Office is on my agenda, for that day.
FAT lot of good that M4 would do me if/when it is not where *I* am.
I am hoping to keep this entire rig light enough so that (IN REAL practice) it will go with me, most all of the time ... NOW (most every day, most anywhere).

Yeah ... I can hit soda cans, all day long, at 300yds, rapid-fire ... with heat mirage, to boot ... With my SR-25 ... or my 700-PSS (both 7.62x51) ... But I ain't gonna carry either one, or a 12GA, very far and it is my belief that vehicles will not only be useless ... vehicles will guarantee that you get "funnelled" and stranded ... not even gonna try anything with more than two wheels.

But, sure ... if you MUST go with a CF option, then, a floated M4 with a 22LR conversion bolt (best of both).


I was actually going to do that ... UNTIL I actually started to thresh-out my gear ... actually tried to fit that gun in my pack and actually tried to carry that M4 + mags + ammo around ... meh...

I am just gonna make a bee-line, for deepest cover, and dedicate that pack-space and pack-weight to better tools plus more food and water ... The AR-7 is just an after-thot.

You won't be seeing me, out there ... not at 300yds ... certainly not at 100 yds ... GO for it !

I speculate that you will be rationning ammo, while I am popping extra food-tabs, and smallish critters ... Unfortunately ... We may (~soon) find out who is "more correct".

P.S. OVER 90% of ALL military live-fire engagements occur @ UNDER 100 yds ...
P.S.S. ... 22LR can/will kill a human target at over 100 yds (up to ~200).

We could also talk about decibels ... broadcasting your position ... but ... meh.

=Elmer= (Shhhh!)

[Rascal]

P.S. OVER 90% of ALL military live-fire engagements occur @ UNDER 100 yds ...

Interesting tidbit...where did you get that information?

Thanks