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EMP effects on Motor Vehicles. Got this off JWR's site

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  • EMP effects on Motor Vehicles. Got this off JWR's site

    This article goes against everything I thought I knew. Michael Z. Williamson is a very credible author....hmmmm.......



    Real World EMP Effects on Motor Vehicles, by Michael Z. Williamson
    Permalink

    I distilled the following from another forum:

    See the EMPCommission.org links. The auto testing results are on page 112 of that report. They tested a sample of 37 cars. Here is a summary of the results:

    Most cars will not even stall. In a test, where cars were subjected to EMP conditions, they tested both with cars turned ON, and cars turned OFF. I quote "No effects were subsequently observed in those automobiles that were not turned on during EMP exposure." NO EFFECTS FOR CARS THAT WERE TURNED OFF during the EMP, they just started right up.

    EMP effects on cars that are running: "The most serious effect observed on running automobiles was that the motors in three cars stopped at field strengths of approximately 30 kV/m or above. In an actual EMP exposure, these vehicles would glide to a stop and require the driver to restart them." In other words, 90% of the cars would not even stall if they were running when an EMP happened. There were some further effects, blinking dashboard lights on some cars, etc.., read the report to see them described. Over 20% of cars experienced NO effects while running, not even burnt out radios, and to reiterate, for the cars that were OFF, there were NO effects.

    Here's the conclusion of the commission for trucks: "Of the trucks that were not running during EMP exposure, none were subsequently affected during our test. Thirteen of the 18 trucks exhibited a response while running. Most seriously, three of the truck motors stopped. Two could be restarted immediately, but one required towing to a garage for repair. The other 10 trucks that responded exhibited relatively minor temporary responses that did not require driver intervention to correct. Five of the 18 trucks tested did not exhibit any anomalous response up to field strengths of approximately 50 kV/m."

    An EMP could cause some cars to stall, which could definitely lead to accidents when the EMP happens. Most cars will run just fine, we will not likely see a breakdown of our auto transportation system from an
    EMP. - SurvivalBlog Editor at Large Michael Z. Williamson

  • #2
    ive read several articals on EMP,some authors say it will kill everything from about 1979 (electronic ignition) to date,but the artical on rawles this morn seems to differ,hardly none will be affected..i just wish all the experts could get their ducks in one row and agree..i was on the verge of giving up my newer model diesel F350 and buying an older one like pre 1979..now i dont know which reports (if any) are even close,but if i was predicting,i would go with EMP would stall and kill all electronic ignition vehicals,computors,tvs,planes and everything that is not protected..anyone elses view on this???
    I HAD RATHER HAVE 12 HONEST PEOPLE JUDGING ME,AS TO HAVE 6 CARRYING ME...

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    • #3
      I believe the fellow states in the original article that the info came from the "Emp Commission" report of a few years ago IIRC.

      Keep in mind they stopped doing above ground nuclear testing some time back, I don't even think they do below ground nuclear testing either. IIRC some sort of computer modeling has been used for years now.

      Good news on the vehicles if it's correct. I'm still gonna do all I can to protect the electronics I need to protect though ;)
      Boris- "He's famous, has picture on three dollar bill!"

      Rocky- "Wow! I've never even seen a three dollar bill!"

      Boris- "Is it my fault you're poor?"

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      • #4
        There were follow-up letters to that one on SurvivalBlog. Apparently, the govt. tested vehicles up to a 50 kv event lasting for a millisecond. Apparently, a CME will last for minutes, and be a LOT stronger than 50 kv by several factors. When I read this one, I was relieved, then I read the follow-up, and realized we're screwed anyway. It will all depend on the strength and duration of the event, I think. Better to prepare for the worst, and hope for the best, eh?

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        • #5
          Agreed. I am not a rocket scientist but the article made me go hmmmm...I would love it if it is true but I have become a cynic in my old age. Thanx for the followups.

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          • #6
            question....lets say that a emp is deployed against the usa and its very powerful etc etc....what exactly on the late model cars are affected. people say electronics...does that mean only the solid state relays as i have read? (what exactly is that by the way) can it be fixed if it is affected? are the vehicles only affected if the are on? any help would be great..thanks guys!
            THAT WHICH DOES NOT KILL ME MAKES ME STRONGER

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            • #7
              The fixes are a maybe depending on strength. Some wiring and circuitry will actually cook. It is really hard to say how bad it will be because truth is we (anyone) do not know as no real testing has been doen latley.
              Knowledge is Power, Practiced Knowledge is Strength, Tested Knowledge is Confidence

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              • #8
                I know enough about reading and studies with EMP and it's effects that Bearman is correct.

                A EMP and its effects depend on the time and amount of energy. Sadly, the energy released during a CME (coronal mass ejection) has not been sufficiently studied in the effects of what would happen to unprotected circuits. (Please also note, that events like "Starfish Prime" and "K Project" were done pre-1975... technology has evolved into what we have today.) Also, I have seen the shows where they show a EMP being forced onto a moving automobile (by a very, very small device) and the car dies and it just needs a restart. I am uncertain as to what a large, broad, intense and powerful solar flare or EMP will do to a car. Electricity moves differently every time, so I have no idea what and where it would go...

                What is more interesting is what I wonder on what will happen with solar panels in the event of a CME. Some of the theories are not too positive.
                "Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing"- Optimus Prime

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                • #9
                  In addition to the effect on vehicles, we have to consider the effect on their support structure. What good does it do if the car will start if there is no electricity available to run the gas pumps? The really big concern as far as EMP goes is the grid. Most of the grid is old, has unshielded transformers, etc. that will be toast if anything of any significance at all hits. Once the grid goes, the computers stop working, the JITDS (Just In Time Delivery System) goes away, and about three days later, we have a problem. Super markets stop being super, convenience stores stop being convenient, and in a lot of cases, even water stops flowing. (Many, if not most, municipal water systems use electric pumps.) Being able to drive could actually be a problem, if it lets you go from someplace safe to someplace that's not. More things to think about, eh?

                  Actually, after thinking about this a bit, I've started looking around where I am all the time. I realized that the school I'm attending for a Master's degree has no emergency lighting in the classrooms. While a CME probably won't be a problem if it hits at night, a nuke would be. If Joe Raghead decides to pop one off over a central part of the grid and shut it down at night, we have a huge problem. Now, add in that many, many people get their indoor heating from electric appliances, (even gas furnaces use electric fans to make them work) if they did it in winter, well, use your imagination.

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                  • #10
                    The EMP question has long bothered me. When I was primarily in Alabama, I worried about getting back to Florida. Now, that I'm in Florida I don't worry so much, but unfortunately millions will be on the road when and if such an event occurs. I just hope I'm not one of them.

                    As far as the Commission report, the information is just as sound as the conditions and the data received during the test. One must also consider the bias of the commission members. I learned years ago that a number of times the 'government' will dilute the data to "prevent panic" etc. You guys know how it goes.

                    I agree that the test conditions were less than what an actual EMP would be. I know that military and essential governmental agencies have hardened their equipment against such an event.

                    The link below is from The Heritage Foundation. I trust them much more than any Obama controlled governmental agency.
                    http://survive-emp.com/fileadmin/Whi...y_2010_v2c.pdf

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                    • #11
                      Uh, Monkeybird, I think that Heritage Foundation report is a projection, not what's out there now. It's a plan for what we need, not what we have. It does have some interesting info in it though. If the Northeast power grid is taken out, those folks will have to go somewhere. I have also heard that the big transformers that are used as an integral part of the grid aren't made in the U.S. and that there is a 3 year waiting list to get them. I don't know if that's true, but if it is, there is no way this society is going to hold together for 3 years waiting on replacement parts. That's my main concern as far as EMP goes. If someone pops off a nuke over the east coast, we're going to have literally MILLIONS of people walking west....

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                      • #12
                        I read somewhere that there is a 3 tier system to the grid. If one goes down, the other 2 can power it for a short time...... however, if 2/3 goes down, the other will fall as well.

                        As for them heading west, possibly, but it depends on the time of year. Currently, it is pretty chilly and imagine all that without power... same goes for summertime, lots of those folks can walk a long ways. The summer in the Midwest and east coast is far more brutal than what is on the west coast... without power to get drinking water and keep people cool - they will not make it past the great plains IMO.

                        And it is a 3 year wait for the transformers... please keep in mind that you are acting on a theory that these countries will also be in operation after a EMP. If we have a massive solar flare or their money collapses (Japan/China is one of the main manufactures and shippers of the transformers), we could ultimately be without power for well more than 3 years...
                        "Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing"- Optimus Prime

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                        • #13
                          Bearman is right - the hord will be leaving the affected area after a few days. But the question of the effect of EMP on motor vehicles is still open. It's the main reason I always carry my BOB in my car. I too have read that the power grid is a main weak point for the U.S.

                          Theories are just that - theories. Having no real answers from the Commission, I think we should plan for the worse and hope for the best.

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                          • #14
                            I have been saying for a long time, how unsecure our electricity is.

                            Could you imagine how little it would take to topple a some of those high tension lines in the middle of nowhere, and/or destroy those ground based transformer stations that only have an 8 foot chain link fence securing them? A planned strike could EASILY cripple a large area, and if you do it strategically, say during a winter storm... could you imagine the death toll from lack of electricity for people north of the mason dixon line during that last winter storm (especially the one that hit New York)...

                            I hate saying that, as I mentioned how DUMB it was to have an international airport so close to the white house and pentagon a few years before 9-11... and BAM!!

                            I am just thankful most terrorists are complete idiots.

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                            • #15
                              After reading my above post, please understand that I agree with Bearman... the hord will come. But how fast and how many actually make the trip... remains to be seen.

                              I realized that I made a few spelling errors too. Such as when I said "can walk" it should have been "can't walk". Looking at all the elderly with no family, sickly and obese people I deal with daily in my life and work, I realize that they too will try to head somewhere safe.

                              Monkeybird, you are correct in the theories statement. I do not put a lot of stock into a report that was supposed to be presented in 9/11/2001, but was brushed under the carpet due to the events that took place that day. As you said, it is better to be prepared for the worse....
                              "Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing"- Optimus Prime

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