Why you need to know ground fighting

[Lowdown3]

cause the terrorists do.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcYknqaeCe8

That and every knucklehead and wanna be tough guy watches the UFC and even just from that most can do some basic stuff on the ground.

"Oh but you see I don't PLAN on going to the ground."

Well geez, I don't "plan" to get in a gunfight, but you gotta train for both.

These guys in that video aren't clowns. They aren't playing around here. I'm seeing some good judo throws, some sambo, ju jitsu and standard wrestling moves.

They are hip tossing each other onto the GROUND, not onto 2" padded mats.

And I don't see anyone saying "I'm not interested in that." What I see reasons to train harder, reasons to keep up physical conditioning.

Check out at 5:19 the hat. "Take this. Got this off a dead Russian Major."

"Major huh? Well I guess it ought to fit on a Colonel." ;)

All joking and movie references aside, this video should motivate you.....

[Matt In Oklahoma]

One dimensional doesn't get very far. You wouldn't just save rice because a variety is needed to suvive. You don't just train in bullseye shooting or just in CPR for first aid and your hand to hand game should be no different. This is a good point and yes it is hard but most things that put you on top in life are. Terrorist aint the only ones training in this, prisoners and well known established gangs are too and I don't believe any of these are using it for "self defense". Great Post!

[Hawkeye]

I have people tell me all the time, that they arent going to bother learning any empty hand fighting skills because they'll just "shoot em". I've got where now I just keep my mouth shut and walk away.

[Lowdown3]

I have people tell me all the time, that they arent going to bother learning any empty hand fighting skills because they'll just "shoot em". I've got where now I just keep my mouth shut and walk away.

I know what you mean. I offered to show some LEO buddies I roll with some knife defense stuff- "My glock beats a knife" was the reply. I smiled at said, "bring your duty belt in one night and I'll bring a couple training knives and you can find out for sure."

Gun guys seem to have a fear of going HTH and/or knives.

They are all tools, YOU are the weapon. At least that's how it should be.

[Rmplstlskn]

With all them big, thick beards in the video, maybe one needs to master "chemical" weapons as gas masks won't work for them... lol!

Most of them look like seriously tough guys... I know I'd be in trouble with the ones I saw fighting... I won't lie...

Rmpl

[Matt In Oklahoma]

When possible I like to train with guys better than me (not the hard part) and attempt to get my TRAINING weapons such as knife or firearm out and see if I can then gain the upper hand and get back to my feet and scan. This is one of the few times I can advocate ankle rigs besides sitting positions because I'm already in a position, probably on my back with them in a mount or just on top where I could draw unseen and fire a few contact rounds. QUESTION FOR YOU-WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU FIRE A CONTACT ROUND WITH YOUR WEAPON?
When ground fighting you find that shoulder rigs and small of back rigs suck. They place your arm in bad positions. You will also find that you will need 30-45 seconds minimum to do this in the best circumstance. Thats a long time when you are really fighting. Totally agree with Lowdown a lot of Officers are now being trained with a "I'm not paid to fight attitude". This has been a bad trend since the 90s.

[Lowdown3]

When possible I like to train with guys better than me (not the hard part) and attempt to get my TRAINING weapons such as knife or firearm out and see if I can then gain the upper hand and get back to my feet and scan. This is one of the few times I can advocate ankle rigs besides sitting positions because I'm already in a position, probably on my back with them in a mount or just on top where I could draw unseen and fire a few contact rounds. QUESTION FOR YOU-WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU FIRE A CONTACT ROUND WITH YOUR WEAPON?

It jams ;) Unless it's a revolver that is. Or if you practice "contact shots" but under stress you can't count on that.

Ground fighting is fun, we do a LOT of that. Everything changes when weapons are involved though.

You are 100% correct about going up against people better than you. I like getting started from a bad position. It makes you really have to work on your escapes and sweeps.

Some of the arm and shoulder locks have some application for what we are doing, in the realm of disarms and keeping someone from getting to their weapon, but the chokes are really where it's at IMO. A tough or hopped up person can keep fighting you with broken appendages, but lack of oxygen or blood to the brain ends the game pretty quick.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

One thing I noticed is these guys in the video are ring trained. In other words they didn't even feign strikes to the throat, groin or back of neck, direct knee breaking shots or kicking that head when they are down on their knees. If you ain't gonna fight MMA or have a profession that would prevent you from doing that legally then start practicing it now. There is a reason they don't let them do that, cause it's life threatening. It's the only way though a gettin old fart like me is gonna whip them 20 yr ole terrorists or thugs.

[Bearman202]

I'm with Matt on this one. There is an adage that youth and ability is no match for age and cunning. They also forget to mention that a full beard or face mask makes an excellent handle. They also didn't show the eye gouges, etc. that end such encounters pretty quickly. Hey, if you're not going to train the way you fight, why bother? I know, you can't really train that stuff because you run out of sparring partners pretty quickly, but what these guys were doing was just exercise. Some nice looking throws, etc. but they neglected to show the part where the guy going over your back is taking a stripe with him with whatever is at hand.

Another thing to mention is that at the end of the Korean war, some journalist asked the various UN factions who was the best hand-to-hand fighters in the war. The journalist was expecting to hear the Koreans, with the various martial arts, the Gerkas, etc. What he heard was unanimously "The Americans." When he asked why, the answer he got was, "With them, it's NEVER hand-to-hand. It's hand-to-rifle butt, hand-to-rock, hand-to-stick...." In other words, they found that when an American was in that situation, that American would pick up something and whack them with it. Something to think about?

[protus]

What he heard was unanimously "The Americans." When he asked why, the answer he got was, "With them, it's NEVER hand-to-hand. It's hand-to-rifle butt, hand-to-rock, hand-to-stick...." In other words, they found that when an American was in that situation, that American would pick up something and whack them with it. Something to think about?

work smarter not harder ethic thats all ;p

I love the i have a gun crowd......
" well i was at the ATM, sun to my back, and..........."
lol

going to ground and wrapping up with someone is not a "comfy" zone for some. It takes some getting used to. Same goes for the punching,kicking etc. The other part is the physical exertion put into try to roll with someone. The 1st time i EVER did any ground work around 2-3 minutes i was huffing and puffing...not so much the last few times where it was almost were you lost track of the time.

Once weapons are introduced is when it gets fun for me. Maybe becuase i dont care for the sport aspect of MA's. Plus it is what we like play with guns,knives etc.


advice i can give is if you havent tried any ground work..read some books, find a buddy who has a try it. learn some basics . I find it funny many want to learn the hsld CQB rifle/pistol stuff...but what happens with joe tango tackles you from your blind side and you both hit the ground....not many think of that........;)

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

...but what happens with joe tango tackles you from your blind side and you both hit the ground....not many think of that........;)

I was training with some guys a couple months ago and we were practicing (without ammo) moving with our MBR from cover to cover, changing mags. I was behind cover changing a mag keeping my focus on the "target" ahead and what do you know, I had a pistol in my back...bang, bang, you're dead. I got "tunnel vision" and it cost me. It is a hard thing to do, but when practicing, don't get caught just looking at your main threat as there may be his buddies lurking/waiting for you. It takes practice and training with good partners.

[Longhunter]

Great motivational video. "Right now someone, somewhere is training to kill you", plan accordingly. Could you be faster, stronger, better, or learn something new?

[610Alpha]

Great thread! Do whatever it takes to end the confrontation ASAP. We can all debate the different styles till the cows come home, versatility is usually the better route because you never know what you will face IMO. Start training, don't stop learning different techniques, train hard, and teach the newbie. The average sheeple probably doesn't have the right thinking when they think about hand to hand training, LEOs, Military, and Bad Guys have a different mindset and it is with that mind set we must train with. There isn't a clean fight when it comes down to your life.

[monkeybird]

Year ago I was educated by a Security Expert hired by a major hospital to teach nurses getting off work at night, what to do if attacked. The advise I've never forgotten was to give them what they wanted, but to never, under any conditions, let the attacker force you to leave the area. The advise was to fight as hard as possible because anyone wanting to take you somewhere else was not really interested in robbing you. The comment was made that even if he shot you, you stood a better chance of rescue in a public area than in a remote location.

I decided then and there that this security expert made a whole lot of sense. I certainly would have difficulty fighting like you guys, but I would fight using every dirty trick I can think of.

[Dedicatedpro]

A couple of observations ... I noticed Arabs, at least one Black guy and Caucasions ... when we see them here, they won't be wearing the ali-baba beards! The top fighters were given pistols instead of trophies and medals. WOW, what a concept! Do good fighting in one discipline and get rewarded by an advanced fighting tool ... Cool! In all of my classes, one of the first things that I mention is that you better get an empty hand fight game if you don't already have one. Sweat more now ... bleed less later!