DIY/homebrew armor?

[Redbeard]

I was talking to a buddy of mine about, well, the usual --i.e., weapons ancient and modern-- and the topic of lamellar armor came up. I guess it's essentially like hard scales; traditionally made of leather and wood and sometimes metal. I was wondering to my buddy about the viability of lamellar armor fabricated with "modern" materials. What do you all think?

As a tangent upon this question, what would one use to fabricate a useful kind of armor, be it lamellar or otherwise (and by "useful" I mean capable of getting in the way of modern projectiles-- 7.62, 5.56, etc.)?

Or is this just plain folly?

Best,
red

[Hawkeye]

I'd think trying to make your own home-made armor, would be a very risky venture. There is a science to it so to speak, and body armor isnt something you usually get to do wrong more than once. Defeating modern rifle rounds (or even handgun) is a vastly different animal than trying to defeat the arrows, crossbow bolts, swords, etc.. of old. Its a curious thought/experiment I'll admit, but, Personally, its something I'd rather buy from a reputable company with plenty of proven testing behind it.

[Redbeard]

I agree with you, Hawkeye, that buying form a company who has already done their QA and field testing is the best way to go. I was mainly thinking of a post-SHTF kind of situation, when good stuff like body armor might well be "contraband" or otherwise hard(er) to come by. Thanks for your comments.

[1Admin]

I agree with you, Hawkeye, that buying form a company who has already done their QA and field testing is the best way to go. I was mainly thinking of a post-SHTF kind of situation, when good stuff like body armor might well be "contraband" or otherwise hard(er) to come by. Thanks for your comments.

Good point! I've been "on to" some friends for years to get off their duffs and get their armor situation squared away but few have.

I honestly think this is going to be one of the big "maaaan I wish I had bought...." after the event.

The chances of acquiring some post event will be close to nil.

[eeyore]

The biggest draw back to fabricate homemade armour imo is to handle the shock imparted by the round, not the penetration.

I toyed around with using ballistic wallboard and trying to use it as a plate, up grading level 3 to level 4, but i could not figure out how to handle the shock

[Redbeard]

Very interesting, eeyore. I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who's at least toyed with the idea...

[RevDoc]

I rather dislike the idea of body armor. It's always heavy, bulky, and gets in the way of shoot 'n scoot. It also tends to make the wearer feel like he's invincible, and that leads to the category of "Unfortunate Accident".

There are two phrases you hope never appear in your obituary: "shallow grave", and "unfortunate accident".

A hard point to repeal borders, however, interests me greatly, and I have devoted a large amount of time and money into research and experimentation to this effect.

In regards to vehicles, I've reached the conclusion that it either needs to be fast, maneuverable, and quiet, or massive and dangerous.

All militaries devote a great deal of research to battle wounds and casualties, and death from getting shot is well down on the list, from the American Civil War onwards.
Most woundings are to the extremities, and 80% of chest shot victims recover on 3 weeks bed rest and aspirin.
The real danger is to your vital organs, which are hard to hit.

A fragmentation vest is cheap, and probably more valuable in the long run. Level 12 with hard plates doesn't work against the guy with a deer rifle aimed at your head, or the guy with an 870 aimed at your knees... that's why Police are finding shotguns loaded with 00 for the first shot, and a 1 ounce rectal probe as the second, in drug raids all around the country. Even the dopers have figured out how to get around that invincible thingy the cops have.

[RangerRick]

I have played with ceramic tile/lexan/stainless steel sheeting laminated together. To absorb the shock,I would wear a chest protector from a moto cross shop. The bottom line i bought a couple of sets of gear before I left D.O.D.
RangerRick

[thereisnospoon]

I have armor and have never understood those who believe it is a drawback, although each is entitled to his own opinion.

I DO NOT envision myself running around in armor with an M60 in one hand and linked ammo in the other, but armor has a place IMHO, especially in Static Defense of a Homestead.

Rolling your own, however, is an adventure I have never considered.

Buying something that has been tested to NIJ Standards is a different story.

[Hawkeye]

Thereisnospoon, you are correct. Armor most certainly has its place. One problem I see is, many people fail to realize what that place is, and how, when, and where it should be employed. Statice Defense of a location such as your Homestead, is a good example if when it would be good to employ.

[Longhunter]

Body armor does have its place in your preps. I won't get into the debate as to if you "need" it or not. Everyone's situation is different. I have seen it save lives here in Iraq and Afghanistan. Another thing to consider is the (un)availability of medical care in an "it" scenerio. Normal cuts and scrapes can easily become infected, let alone massive damage caused to flesh, nerves, tissue and bones by bullets. Wounds are never pretty. It's not like the old westerns were a simple bandana is used to stop blood loss, and every wound is a clean through and through type. The amount of bandages, gauze, gloves, meds, tourniquets, fluids, and other things used for 1 wounded guy is astounding.

I will also say this, don't expect to be wearing body armor and your rucksack/BOB at the same time. This is next to impossible and I don't think it's very practical for foot movements. For retreat defense or even day patrols, yes body armor is great. Right now here in Iraq, my kit(body armor, mags, frags, radio, water, etc) weighs about 60 pounds. After being in it for a couple of hours, it feels like it weighs even more.

As for feeling invincible or having false confidence in body armor, I don't think that is true. But I guess it could apply to some people. Have confidence in yourself, your teammates, your training, and your equipment; but remember "stuff" happens. Even the most high speed operator can be killed by a 10 year old with an unzeroed AK-47.

Remember to train in your body armor and make sure you have a way to carry your fighting load with that body armor. Either with pouches attached to the body armor itself, or being able to use your LBE/MOLLE vest or whatever in conjuction with your body armor.

As to the real issue, DIY body armor. Last year, I had an opportunity to attend a civilian run "cool guy" course courtesy of the US Army. The course went over a variety of topics and we spent a day on improvised ballistic protection. They showed us how two phone books were used together to stop pistol rounds. The two phone books are interlaced together, one page at a time( a time consuming process). After this is done, the two phone books are taped together with 100 mph tape. We backed off to about 10 m, and the instructor fired a few 9mm and .45 rounds at the phone books. None of the rounds penetrated. As eeyore pointed out above, this would do almost nothing for the shock of the rounds hitting you. As well as the fact that it would be difficult to wear the phone books. But the phone books could be used help protect a window or reinforce something. Another thing was to roll up a rug or carpet and tape or use zipties to keep it rolled up. Anything with natural fibers in it is helpful in stopping/slowing down bullets. The example given to me was to use the rolled up carpets in the trunk of your car. This way bullets have to penetrate the trunk, the rolled up carpets, and then the back seat itself. The carpet and phone book ideas are just to ADD to whatever protection you already have(body armor, ballistic blankets, sandbags,etc). Please don't take this like I am saying to stuff a phone book down your shirt and roll rugs around your legs and you are bulletproof.

In the course they also showed us some things that bullets will easily penetrate. 1/4" steel, 1/8" steel, cinderblocks, car doors; many things people consider "cover" were all easily penetrated by rifle rounds, shotgun rounds and even pistol rounds. For instance, the only real "cover" on a car is the engine block, and the front and rear axle(which are only about the size of a dinner plate).

I think the only real answer to body armor you can wear, is to buy it from a well known manufactuer. I 've used plate carriers made by eagle industries as well as paraclete products. I can say I have been pleased with both companies. Like everything thing else, you get what you pay for. I know everyone's situation is different, so it depends how much you are willing to spend. As for static positions, sandbags are the way to go. Stick to proven methods of ballistic protection.

Just my 2 cents, I hope some of this helps.

[rkramseb]

I don't think I would want to make my body armor..have 2 or 3 sets around for work, but just thinking about having the "
right" weave or thickness makes me shiver....Nope I'l drop the bucks...

[Diz]

Home-made armor, hoo boy, there's a loaded question. In today's current world, it's prolly not worth the effort, as so much surplus kevlar and plate is available that tailoring your own set up has never been easier. So right now, I would simply go to a reputable dealer and get set up. BTW, good surplus kevlar, and I mean stuff in the 5-10 year old range, has been proven to be a better stopper than a lot of the newer materials. Yes that's a strong statement, but goggle it up, it's all on-line.

If we find ourselves in a different situation in the future, then making your own may become necessary, if and when required. Warriors did it for centuries (with varying levels of success) so I don't know why we couldn't either.

As to the larger question, do you even need BA, well, that's a personal as well as tactical question. If I am largely static (think perimeter security) or going into a high-threat sit (think direct-action raid), I think armor is highly recommended. If I am traveling extended ranges and/or mobility is the key to the op, then I may not carry or use it. If it is extermely hot in your AO, then it may not be realistic to wear for extended periods.

So armor, as with anything else, needs to be considered in light of your mission, terrain, weather, threat level, etc.

[Hawkeye]

Home-made armor, hoo boy, there's a loaded question. In today's current world, it's prolly not worth the effort, as so much surplus kevlar and plate is available that tailoring your own set up has never been easier. So right now, I would simply go to a reputable dealer and get set up. BTW, good surplus kevlar, and I mean stuff in the 5-10 year old range, has been proven to be a better stopper than a lot of the newer materials. Yes that's a strong statement, but goggle it up, it's all on-line.

If we find ourselves in a different situation in the future, then making your own may become necessary, if and when required. Warriors did it for centuries (with varying levels of success) so I don't know why we couldn't either.

As to the larger question, do you even need BA, well, that's a personal as well as tactical question. If I am largely static (think perimeter security) or going into a high-threat sit (think direct-action raid), I think armor is highly recommended. If I am traveling extended ranges and/or mobility is the key to the op, then I may not carry or use it. If it is extermely hot in your AO, then it may not be realistic to wear for extended periods.

So armor, as with anything else, needs to be considered in light of your mission, terrain, weather, threat level, etc.

Exactly spot on.

[1Admin]

One thing to consider is that in many ways, good armor is kind of a force multiplier.

If it's just me, Hawkeye and 2 others and I get shot and killed, then Hawkeye and the 2 others are now screwed on so many levels. The 6 hour shifts just went to 8, etc.

To get a second chance, a re-boot if you will, is worth it to me. Is it a PITB to hump around? Your darn right it is. Once every couple months I run our usual mile with my BA and plates on. It's not fun by any stretch of the imagination, especially in heat and to be honest I dread doing it.

Extremity wounds would be easier to work with in a Survival Medicine context IMO. The good Lord gave us duplicates of certain things- two legs, two arms, etc. He did not give us two hearts though.

A man can sit in a chair with one leg and keep watch. A man with one arm can stand watch and fire a pistol or otherwise warn the others of imminent danger. A man that's dead offers no value to the rest.

The bottom line question is "how much is your life worth?"