DIY/homebrew armor?

[Crazy Scout Daddy]

A lot of the plates that are generally considered one hit will take more than that. We shot a level 4 plate with 7.62x51 over 20 times and amazingly not one penetrated. Their seemed to be two layers. The outside layer was completely gone in the center but the back layer was just bubbled out. If their had been a person behind it I am sure it would have been like getting beat with a baseball bat in the chest and stomach but I'll take that over 20 bullet holes any day.

No one ever wants to wear body armor because it is heavy and hot but it is always a good idea to at least have it staged very close by.

[Hawkeye]

Yes, if you have ceramic plates, its a good idea to have them x-rayed every so often to check for hairline cracks. Steel plates obviously wont develope cracks from rough handling like ceramic will.

[Lowdown3]

Ceramic is supposed to be xrayed every so often. Steel doesn't have that requirement IMO. Something to think about for PAW type use.

The ceramic is muiy lighter than the steel though.

The Level IV plates I have are marked similar to what Hawkeye posted.

[Klayton]

HMMMM Hawkeye, just read the latest JIC 0101.06 (dated JUL 08)

Some differences: they use the terminology flexible armor instead of soft armor.
Also the level requirements I posted seem to be dead on in the new JIC.

I did find where some Level IV armor is able to be tested with multiple hits (upto 6 per panel):

"For hard armors and insert plates intended to provide Type IV protection, the compliance
test group shall consist of a sufficient number of armor panels to allow a 24 shot P-BFS test and
a 12 shot BL test, with at least one spare armor panel. These requirements are outlined in figure
6. For armor models capable of withstanding only a single ballistic impact, the compliance test
group shall consist of 37 armor panels. For armor models capable of withstanding multiple
ballistic impacts, the manufacture shall specify the number of shots to be fired at each panel, and
the compliance test group size may be reduced accordingly. However, a maximum of six P-BFS
shots may be taken on a single panel. The compliance test group must include one armor panel as
a spare."

I thank you for your post, as it made me do some research.
Knowledge is power! =)

[Klayton]

Thanks Hawkeye!

I was taught (a long time ago it seems) that all rifle body armor (level III - V) were one shot armors and needed inspection and repair after being struck.
Also told this was even more important if using ceramic plates instead of steel plates.

Guess I will have to do some more research, as I have never heard the term Level III soft armor and Level III hard armor...

Thanks again...

[Hawkeye]

Some info I thought I'd pass on from an acquaintance who knows his stuff when it comes to armor.

"Per NIJ standards, Level III is tested for six hits of 7.62x51 ball ammunition, while Level IV is tested for 1 hit of .30-06 M2AP armor piercing ammunition. Manufactures can get their items tested against other rounds, too, and many of the larger ones do. But if it's not listed on the test results, it isn't necessarily rated to protect against that round.

An example is the common steel Level III plate. While a Level III-rated plate is rated against 7.62x51 ball, it may not stop some 5.56x45mm rounds, especially if loaded hot (such as some South African 5.56 ammo). There have been instances and tests done where these rounds penetrated the steel, which easily stopped the 7.62x51 round.

Soft armor is "downward compatible", meaning that Level IIIA stops Level II threats, which stops Level IIA threats, and so on. Hard armor isn't rated that way. There are specific tests (listed above) that it must meet...and that's it. Thus, some rounds might not be stopped by hard armor, when you think it might. "

And just to add additionally.....there are Level III and IV ceramic plates, and there are Level III and IV steel plates, with multi hit capable versions of both. Some hard plates are stand alone, and some are ICW (in conjunction with) soft armor. Level III hard plates and Level III soft armor, are also different animals.

[Klayton]

This is one of the larger budget items for a survivalist. But nonetheless, extremely important to have atleast one for the person on guard duty, preferably one for each family member if you can afford it. If buying them one at a time because of your budget, buy the larger sizes first, in a pinch your kid can hide in the larger one better than you can use their smaller one.

We use interceptor body armor, cost varies between $600-$900 depending on threat level and if you want ceramic plates. If you're rich, dragon scales claims to be the best out there, but at a starting price of $5,000 a piece, thats a little more than my budget will allow. They come in levels II through IV (for civilians), level V for military and police only. But trust me, level IV is more than adequate.

Type II: protects against 124 gr 9 mm FMJ RN bullets at a velocity of 1305 ft/s

[Redbeard]

Can you ever say that thinking and trying to improve your situation is a bad thing. ...
I would be MORTIFIED when people don't think, dream and experiment.

Ok, I don't feel so "duuuhhhh" about it now that you put it that way. Incidentally, I actually saw some lamellar armor today (long story short, it was "on display" at a castle near where I live) and I can see that it could be great against some things. A bullet is not one of them, for sure. It's not exactly what I was thinking of, either. I had in mind overlapping "tiles" of metal, wood or whatever, but on this set of armor, there was no overlapping at all, just individual plates arranged as on a 2-D surface.

[eeyore]

Can you ever say that thinking and trying to improve your situation is a bad thing. If you are smart enough to learn from it, then is that bad?

How about the quote Edison, when they asked him about why he did not give up in his process of finding a light bulb “We now know a thousand ways not to build a light bulb”

I would be MORTIFIED when people don't think, dream and experiment.

[Redbeard]

I've gotta say, I'm glad I asked the question, but now that I've read all these responses, I'm MORTIFIED that I ever gave thought to DIYing armor. In the history of bad ideas, that would have been a notable milestone.

[Hawkeye]

Good points all the way around. Again, the key is to know why, where, and how/why to use it.

[1Admin]

One thing to consider is that in many ways, good armor is kind of a force multiplier.

If it's just me, Hawkeye and 2 others and I get shot and killed, then Hawkeye and the 2 others are now screwed on so many levels. The 6 hour shifts just went to 8, etc.

To get a second chance, a re-boot if you will, is worth it to me. Is it a PITB to hump around? Your darn right it is. Once every couple months I run our usual mile with my BA and plates on. It's not fun by any stretch of the imagination, especially in heat and to be honest I dread doing it.

Extremity wounds would be easier to work with in a Survival Medicine context IMO. The good Lord gave us duplicates of certain things- two legs, two arms, etc. He did not give us two hearts though.

A man can sit in a chair with one leg and keep watch. A man with one arm can stand watch and fire a pistol or otherwise warn the others of imminent danger. A man that's dead offers no value to the rest.

The bottom line question is "how much is your life worth?"

[Hawkeye]

Home-made armor, hoo boy, there's a loaded question. In today's current world, it's prolly not worth the effort, as so much surplus kevlar and plate is available that tailoring your own set up has never been easier. So right now, I would simply go to a reputable dealer and get set up. BTW, good surplus kevlar, and I mean stuff in the 5-10 year old range, has been proven to be a better stopper than a lot of the newer materials. Yes that's a strong statement, but goggle it up, it's all on-line.

If we find ourselves in a different situation in the future, then making your own may become necessary, if and when required. Warriors did it for centuries (with varying levels of success) so I don't know why we couldn't either.

As to the larger question, do you even need BA, well, that's a personal as well as tactical question. If I am largely static (think perimeter security) or going into a high-threat sit (think direct-action raid), I think armor is highly recommended. If I am traveling extended ranges and/or mobility is the key to the op, then I may not carry or use it. If it is extermely hot in your AO, then it may not be realistic to wear for extended periods.

So armor, as with anything else, needs to be considered in light of your mission, terrain, weather, threat level, etc.

Exactly spot on.

[Diz]

Home-made armor, hoo boy, there's a loaded question. In today's current world, it's prolly not worth the effort, as so much surplus kevlar and plate is available that tailoring your own set up has never been easier. So right now, I would simply go to a reputable dealer and get set up. BTW, good surplus kevlar, and I mean stuff in the 5-10 year old range, has been proven to be a better stopper than a lot of the newer materials. Yes that's a strong statement, but goggle it up, it's all on-line.

If we find ourselves in a different situation in the future, then making your own may become necessary, if and when required. Warriors did it for centuries (with varying levels of success) so I don't know why we couldn't either.

As to the larger question, do you even need BA, well, that's a personal as well as tactical question. If I am largely static (think perimeter security) or going into a high-threat sit (think direct-action raid), I think armor is highly recommended. If I am traveling extended ranges and/or mobility is the key to the op, then I may not carry or use it. If it is extermely hot in your AO, then it may not be realistic to wear for extended periods.

So armor, as with anything else, needs to be considered in light of your mission, terrain, weather, threat level, etc.

[rkramseb]

I don't think I would want to make my body armor..have 2 or 3 sets around for work, but just thinking about having the "
right" weave or thickness makes me shiver....Nope I'l drop the bucks...