Silver Coins

[Bearman202]

I stopped by a coin shop today and asked the proprietor about silver rounds. I specifically asked about Amex rounds. He said he would sell them if he could get them. He then told me he had some generic silver rounds, for $35. I asked him about American Eagles. He said they were spot+$2.50. I was a bit shocked. His employee explained that in order to get them, they had to order them from the govt. The price quoted was if they ordered 500. Less than that, and they were spot+$3.00. Something to make you go hmmmm?

[1Admin]

This is the problem I think a lot of people miss with PM's- you buy at retail and later if you wish to sell, usually have to sell at wholesale.

[GAGLOCK]

Your coin shop has pretty good pricing, I've seen others asking $4-5 over. The mint sells those "monster boxes" of 500 to a select few wholesalers for about $2 over spot. That's a very small markup. If the coin shop buys them from you at spot and resells at $2.50 above that's only a 7% profit margin if silver is at $35/oz

[rockriver]

here's the question.
i would like to buy some 90% coins.

silver is about 34/ounce i think.
how much for your decent looking 90% coins? using multiple of face value
and
what would you pay for the same?
we have a campout coming in florida in a week.
we might just turn this theoretical ? into a real meal deal.

[Bearman202]

For some reason, I have a problem with buying the 90% stuff. I know it's worth a lot more than face value, but does anyone else? I know, anything it worth exactly what someone else is willing to give you for it, but the idea of trading a dime for a chicken just seems strained to me. How do you convince the guy that spent six months and who knows how much food, shelter, etc. getting that chicken to edible weight that the dime will cover his expenses? Part of that is psychological, I think. If the dollar goes away, how do people really think about coins that are denominated in fractions of those dollars? Do you see the problem? I think, "This is one ounce of pure silver" would be worth more, but that may just be me. It could be too that if we get to that point, that one ounce of silver might be totally worthless. "Can you eat it?" "Nope." "Can you shoot food with it?" "Nope." "Can it make light that will keep me from running into stuff at night with it?" "Nope." You see where I'm going here.

[rockriver]

bearman - real good questions.
i need to do prepping in all the areas you mentioned.
i have no chickens... need to work on that to.
!! maybe someone will bring some chickens to the campout to trade!!
--
your concern now will be concerns after the shtf.
but folks are learning.
ld3 has mentioned he will accept precious metals as trade for his
goods at the campout.
i'm taking a few things to trade. going home with a few coins in my pocket
will be easier for me to transport back home than say 500 pounds of salt..
oh yeah. i need salt too!
to give an example -- i propose that you (bearman, or whoever is reading this) has $25.00 worth (face value) of silver coin in a sock in the closet. i'm trying to get you to put it on the market. i propose to give you $500.00
for that sock full of coin.
my suggestion is that he can put those dimes and quarters into a coke machine and get 25 cans of coke for his coins. or he can trade with me and get greenbacks that will give him 500 cans of coke!!
i will then go to the chicken seller and see if he'll take 2 dimes each for his Rhode Island reds.
got any 90% silver you want to part with?
or anybody reading this interested in parting with their FRN for some silver. i might trade off the ones i get from bearman.
got any silver eagles? what would you take for them?

[Bearman202]

Rockriver, I agree with you. *I* know the value of the 90% stuff, but does Joe Farmer with his coop full of chickens? I worry about running into the "I used to sell them for $2.50 each, and you want me to give you one for .20?" problem. "But these are 90% silver, so they're worth more than .20!" "Maybe to you...." If you're dealing with someone who knows the value of them, it would work. If they don't, it might not. Would it be better to offer the guy a couple rounds of .308 for his chicken? I don't know. What I do know is that those greenbacks are on the verge of being worth zilch. If you can convince someone to trade their sack of coins for it, you would probably be better off in the long run. This is the problem I'm having right now. I have some cash available, but what do I buy with it? I don't have enough to buy property, which is what I really need, but I have enough that if the banks close tomorrow I'm going to take pretty good hit. I need to convert it into something that's going to be worth something, and that something has to be something that has value for everyone. I'm thinking gold and silver, but that's like painting a bullseye on your rear end. (You show up with a handfull of either, and SOMEBODY is gonna notice.) You can only have so much food, unless you've got an underground warehouse. Likewise guns and ammo. Medical supplies? Can you sell/trade them later, if the economy collapses but the basic infrastructure doesn't? You see the problem?

[GAGLOCK]

Interesting dilemma. This is a popular recurring topic so 'll lay out my opinions on this.

You want to convert rapidly depreciating FRN into something tangible that will hold its value and be trade-able in the future potential of an economic/societal collapse.

Thousands of years of history have shown the value of precious metals for just this need. What other alternatives are there? Also think about what happens if the end of the world doesn't occur.

Long term storage food? MUST HAVE! Won't get any cheaper so will retain its value even if no collapse. Will be there if you need it in any collapse event. Trade-able? Only in a collapse event.
YES YOU CAN EAT IT!

Guns? MUST HAVE! Won't get any cheaper so will retain SOME value even if no collapse. will be there if you need it in any collapse event. Trade-able? Yes in any event but may trade at a loss if no event occurs. Easy to trade in any event or non-event. CAN'T EAT GUNS!

Ammo? Ditto for guns except would probably trade for less value if no event occurs but possibly better value if there is an event. Difficult to trade in non-event. Another consideration for guns/ammo is THEY COULD BE USED AGAINST YOU. CAN'T EAT AMMO!

Meds? NICE TO HAVE! Shorter lifespan than long term foods, will eventually be worthless. Will not get any cheaper. Excellent trade goods and could be a lifesaver for your own if an event occurs. Extremely difficult to trade in non-event. With no event value is questionable long term BUT I HAVE SOME.

Fire/Water/Shelter/Gear Will not get cheaper. Must have and trade-able in most event scenarios. Questionable value long term if no event. PREPARED INDIVIDUAL MUST HAVE THIS REGARDLESS.

I'd stock up on the above before I'd consider buying precious metals. I'd also pay off all debts including a mortgage before investing a lot of money in PM's. However - once I had all the above then I'd also stock up on PM's.

Precious Metals Thousands of years history of being a good hedge against inflation. Ditto for use in trade in any event EXCEPT for end of the world type events. Value in that scenario is unknown however human kind somehow decided to use it as such thousands of years ago. Easily convertable to cash in most all event/non-event scenarios. PREPARED INDIVIDUAL SHOULD HAVE SOME ONCE THE BASICS ABOVE ARE COVERED IMO. Biggest insurance policy against high/hyper inflation I can think of. IMO that is our most likely threat, and has been proven to be a real ongoing everyday occurance. Investment? RISKY Confiscation? Possible, same with guns and "hoards" of food. CAN'T EAT THEM! But in most every scenario could likely trade them for cash or other goods for food. Will farmer John know what the value of a 90% silver dime is? Maybe not right away but will eventually. Will farmer John need .22lr ammo? Maybe not if he's got 10 bulk packs in his cellar. Will he need food? Maybe, probably not. Guns? Maybe, maybe not. Meds? ditto PM's ditto

Nothing is a absolute sure thing IMO not even inflation. But I'd give inflation a 98% probability.

Any other ideas about tangible things to buy with FRNs?

[rockriver]

gaglock.
a georgian has spoken clearly.
i need to work on everything you mentioned!
bearman,
adding your comments to gaglock.
seems like i should locate some 90%
and some 308
something of value that i could trade for the farmer's chickens.

[brokedownbiker]

Great thread, good info here! I see PM's as just another prep. I have a goal set for it as well as food, ammo, medical supplies, etc. The other items came first of course, once I got to what I considered a safe level, I moved to the next item. I'm currently adding some PM's but not a bunch.

I'm of the opinion that barter will be king and there are a lot of things that will be of great value and in more demand than PM's but they will have their place. To each his own, right? One of my acquaintances has almost 20k rounds of .22Lr because he believes that they will be the new currency; me, I want variety in my trade goods. Some of this, some of that. Pm's are just one of those 'somes'.

[miked2345]

I started collecting Precious Metals a few months ago and so far I have 20 to 30 pounds....

But it's mostly just lead, brass, and a little steel. :cool:

[daz]

Miked2345,
Interesting you should mention Lead, Brass and Steel. I work in a machine shop and wounder if it would be wise to stock up. But being in the NW, since we do not have that much inside storage, rust is a real problem, at least for steel if stored outside for more than a year, even under cover.

As for the other PM's, I feel they have great utility in cases of economic collapses that do not degenerate into a societal collapse. Argentina and Zimbabwe have both suffered hyper inflation in recent history. And in both cases $1000. in silver would have been more useful than $1000 worth of ammunition near as I can tell.
That is one of the biggest problems with preping. The problem of deciding what to prep for. The possibilities are almost limitless

As far as getting PM's, I have dealt locally and with a fellow at a place called Colorado Gold for 8 years or so. He has a real reasonable mark up and what he will buy back for is stated right on his site. But the minimums are getting kind of steep. He also writes a bi-weekly blog that may interest some.

[Lowdown3]

Everything needs to be in balance.

Someone who is serious about preparing that doesn't have a year supply of food for his family, shouldn't get too heavy into PM's, IMO.

The problem is we are Americans. Everyone wants to "score." Everyone wants to sit around a campfire and tell his survival buds how the silver he purchased at $4. ounce is now "worth" $35. The reality is most of these folks will never sell it, so what is it really "worth?"

That PM's have value no one is arguing. Most people simply get into PM's far too quickly than they should. Other bases need to be covered first. A bunch of shiny stuff isn't going to do you a lot of good if you have to cash it in after two months of unemployment to feed your family. The money would be better spent having the food there to feed your family, having the savings so you don't have to sell the PM's, etc.

I trade for them from time to time. I do it when I can because more times than not, it gets you a sale where you might not have gotten the sale. Guys that bought gold at $300. an ounce in the 90's trade that towards $1,500. or so worth of gear, food, NVG's, etc. and come off REALLY WELL in doing so. Guys that bought silver at $4. an ounce trade it towards gear, food, etc. at many times what they paid for it. Now they have something tangible they can actually use to further their survival- AND they paid a helluva lot less for it than they would have if they used cash. It works for them well and I add a little to my PM's from the trade. Can't always do it, but I try to do it when I can to help folks. Often times I've had folks say "I bought a bunch of PM's when I got started, but I don't have much ---- fill in the blank-food, water filters, medical gear, etc.---- and I want to get that squared away."

Holding close to inflation over the long haul is why I personally get some. I think their use during a true survival situation will be limited. But that's just me.

[puternut]

"I think their use during a true survival situation will be limited. "

That has been my thought also. We are so accustomed to a quarter being worth .25c that I don't think Joe Average is going to agree
with you that it is worth $10.00 (whatever). To him it is still a quarter.

Now if he needs some 22 rounds or a gallon of kerosene you might be able to make a good barter.

Just another view point to think about!

[rockriver]

mighty good point puter...
i was at sale table here recently wanting to buy a backpack from a fella.
mighty nice one and came with some options. i knew the seller.
when i asked for a "deal" his response was...
"got any silver coins?"
so, folks are learning..
(actually, this particular seller, is no newbie to the pm business- i'm pretty sure..
he's pretty squared away!)