Open Carry

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Matt, I've got my pistol, a small extendable billy, but am thinking about a good long knife to carry in case someone does pic pocket my gun so I can hopefully get it back and remove their fellonious fingers in the process. Any thoughts on knives and a hidaway sheath of some kind?

Thought is pre-shtf you are going to jail for a fixed blade attack in most states just as you will for the billy even if you are defending yourself, just stay with the clip ons on something similar that can be worked one handed such as knives with flippers or open assist where allowed by law. Initially you need to be hands on, hopefully Karen or Sharpshooter will jump in and let you know just how hard it is to protect that weapon up close when I pressure them. There isn't any going for anything else until you solve that initial issue of retention and that can only be done with hand to hand. Even if I dont get your sidearm when we start the chances of you getting it out are slim until yu gain an opening or an angle in which you can draw. I won't/can't show you on here but using proper equipment such as a rendered safe firearm or better yet a trainer holstered try and draw it before someone can rush you at conversation distance (arms length) and have them focus on getting your weapon or stopping you from getting it. You will quickly see that one or both hands are busy holding it in the holster and if you have a hand you are pushing away the aggressor or blocking punches which leaves nothing free for a secondary weapon. Once proper techniques or just plain luck kicks in and you gain the angle or distance then you can draw or get another weapon if the primary is lost. Lemme know what you find after you try it

[Karen]

I absolutely agree with Matt. There is no way I could draw and use a second weapon when I'm busy trying to retain my gun. It's really hard to even get my gun out of the holster when someone is trying to take it. I need both of my hands to keep someone from taking it. I really reccommend that you work on weapon retention. If you can retain your weapon and create some space, you would have a chance to draw your weapon and use it. Concentrate on weapon retention so you don't ever have the problem of trying to get the weapon back from your attacker. Trying to get your weapon back after someone takes it is a bit like shutting the gate after the cows have left the barnyard. Sure you can try to get them back, but why not just prevent it from happening in the first place?

[Lowdown3]

Often times too when you really "work" on these things, you'll figure out that the less you work on the problem of keeping the gun, the more you can work on the real problem.

In the end it doesn't really matter if you win via a gun, knife, choke, fists, baseball bat, shank, etc. You don't get style points for shooting the perp.

More often than not, you see people "freeze" when it becomes a "I CAN'T lose my gun!" issue. That "freeze" is a lack of movement, sometimes a symptom of fear. Whatever the reason, when our movement is hampered nothing good usually happens afterwards.

Not to be construed to say you shouldn't train on retaining the weapon, but if your primary focus is that FIRST and the fight second, your gonna get your arse kicked AND probably shot with your own gun.

Basically what I'm saying is- listen to Matt, he's a much higher level Ninja than I am.

You guys that think all you need is a CCW need to get out and train these skills. Lots of good close quarters type classes out there. Train with someone like Sonny P. or a good Systema instructor to get some outside the box thinking on the subject also.

[Benn Gleck]

Open carry has always been legal in Ohio but pretty much only gun people know it and that includes cops. Legally you can do it but you ARE going to be hassled.

There's no law against the printing of your concealed handgun or if it shows but I like the tactical advantage of concealment.

Its ironic that I happened across this thread, the wife and I had just finished the paperwork on our renewals for Utah concealed weapons permits. Years ago we had to get Utah so we could carry in Georgia when passing through. I wish that once you had your permit it was recognized in all states.

[JUSTIFIED]

Thought is pre-shtf you are going to jail for a fixed blade attack in most states just as you will for the billy even if you are defending yourself, just stay with the clip ons on something similar that can be worked one handed such as knives with flippers or open assist where allowed by law. Initially you need to be hands on, hopefully Karen or Sharpshooter will jump in and let you know just how hard it is to protect that weapon up close when I pressure them. There isn't any going for anything else until you solve that initial issue of retention and that can only be done with hand to hand. Even if I dont get your sidearm when we start the chances of you getting it out are slim until yu gain an opening or an angle in which you can draw. I won't/can't show you on here but using proper equipment such as a rendered safe firearm or better yet a trainer holstered try and draw it before someone can rush you at conversation distance (arms length) and have them focus on getting your weapon or stopping you from getting it. You will quickly see that one or both hands are busy holding it in the holster and if you have a hand you are pushing away the aggressor or blocking punches which leaves nothing free for a secondary weapon. Once proper techniques or just plain luck kicks in and you gain the angle or distance then you can draw or get another weapon if the primary is lost. Lemme know what you find after you try it

Hand to hand combat is something I have no experience with unless you're talking about thumb wrestling?...nah, didn't think so. LOL I've got a retired military FB friend(Kilo Gulf)who constantly posts videos on hand to hand, knife and sword techniques. I need to give them more attention than I do but there's nothing like hands on training. Unless I'm caught out in the open with nothing around me I'm inclined to pick up whatever is handy around me and use it as a weapon.

I use an ankle holster now but want to find a good belt holster now that we will shortly have Open/Carry. I figure I'll keep one on the ankle even when carrying the other so I'll have my backup.

[JUSTIFIED]

I was just thinking of videos I've seen where cops are in an altercation with a perp and they are trying to get the cop's gun and, like you said, he's basically a one handed fighter trying to protect that gun. My mindset is quickly changing on how I view the world around me from the stand point of prepping, finances, and security. I remember one of my older brothers showing me a few moves that could drop, or injure severely, a much larger person than myself as long as I have one hand free. Guess I need to keep those in the back of my mind and start studying hand to hand a bit more.

[JUSTIFIED]

I absolutely agree with Matt. There is no way I could draw and use a second weapon when I'm busy trying to retain my gun. It's really hard to even get my gun out of the holster when someone is trying to take it. I need both of my hands to keep someone from taking it. I really reccommend that you work on weapon retention. If you can retain your weapon and create some space, you would have a chance to draw your weapon and use it. Concentrate on weapon retention so you don't ever have the problem of trying to get the weapon back from your attacker. Trying to get your weapon back after someone takes it is a bit like shutting the gate after the cows have left the barnyard. Sure you can try to get them back, but why not just prevent it from happening in the first place?

I have no problem with putting distance between myself and my attacker so I can draw if I have to. My legs still work pretty good! LOL
In all seriousness you are right Karen. The object is to gain and/or maintain a safe distance between you and your attacker to give time for a draw. I'm a pretty non-trusting person in the public to begin with and prone to keeping a few feet between me and someone I don't know. In all likelyhood I won't open/carry unless I'm going into a situation that I feel demands it and I wouldn't put myself in that type of scenario unless I had no choice.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

I use an ankle holster now but want to find a good belt holster now that we will shortly have Open/Carry. I figure I'll keep one on the ankle even when carrying the other so I'll have my backup.

The ankle holster is horrible for most types of contact. It requires you to bend over and draw or drop to a knee to draw with someone who is at a close distance and closing fast. The exceptions are when driving or grappling(which should be avoided if possible but...). I do like the ankle rig for grappling because if you are in gaurd or rubber guard you can draw without them seeing you and finish it quickly. I did a video on here about that and how not to shoot yourself in the process.

Basically what I'm saying is- listen to Matt, he's a much higher level Ninja than I am.

Dunno bout that, this stuff here aint no joke and is one of the scariest times.

[JUSTIFIED]

The ankle holster is horrible for most types of contact. It requires you to bend over and draw or drop to a knee to draw with someone who is at a close distance and closing fast. The exceptions are when driving or grappling(which should be avoided if possible but...). I do like the ankle rig for grappling because if you are in gaurd or rubber guard you can draw without them seeing you and finish it quickly. I did a video on here about that and how not to shoot yourself in the process.



Dunno bout that, this stuff here aint no joke and is one of the scariest times.

I agree with you Matt but since we haven't been able to open/carry I haven't had much choice since a belt holster is exposed unless I'm wearing a sweatshirt or jacket which most of the year in OK we aren't. A pocket holster is out because I'm carrying a .38 revolver and it won't fit. Eventually I'll probably pick up a semi-auto from my son so I can hide one somewhere other than my ankle.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

http://www.ok.gov/governor/OpenCarryFAQ.html

This answers alot of questions for travelers some who have already hit me up.

[JUSTIFIED]

http://www.ok.gov/governor/OpenCarryFAQ.html

This answers alot of questions for travelers some who have already hit me up.

I wonder how long it will be before some businesses post on their doors that they will not allow arms to be carried openly in their establishment? Though, I'm glad some will open/carry (think it will deter some crime) I will likely continue to stay concealed. I'd just as soon nobody know I'm carrying, or what I'm carrying.

[Grand58742]

I wonder how long it will be before some businesses post on their doors that they will not allow arms to be carried openly in their establishment?

Already happened in CVS, at least the one in Choctaw.

[JUSTIFIED]

Already happened in CVS, at least the one in Choctaw.

We don't have a CVS here but will protest any business here denying the right to open carry. I hope Walmart and/or Lowes don't try it.

[Sharpshooter]

most theaters are going to a no open carry policy. the one i visited tonight had it posted open carry prohibited. Now at this particular one simply cover it up to concealed and your fine to go they had no postings on concealed carry

[JUSTIFIED]

most theaters are going to a no open carry policy. the one i visited tonight had it posted open carry prohibited. Now at this particular one simply cover it up to concealed and your fine to go they had no postings on concealed carry

When the open/carry passed I wondered how long it would take businesses to start posting signs prohibiting it. I respect their right to do it but hope gun owners are vocal about their dissent and vote with their wallets where they can.

Like most, I'll just keep on conceal/carrying.