Your shtf go to rifle

[Spock]

the reason folks "think" that way is just like Bugout bags. Untill they use it, they dont know. It sounds grand to have all this kit and cool stuff, till after a few miles/hours. especially if they arent in any shape.
i was reading something similar the other day, where a poster said he planned on wearing a shot gun with pistol grip on his back ( like a scabbard i assume) while doing work outside come shtf....of course he was gonna load it stacked 00/slug. Makes ya wonder if the guy has done anything with that gun besides model it in front of the mirror. Some people are justa gonna have figure it out the hard way............;)

my 1st attempt at BOB weighted 50 pounds. a few months later i had it down to 29 lbs for a hike I went on. people gotta get out an use the dang things. go camping for a weekend with your bob....GO TO A CARBINE MATCH with your rifle and gear.

[Spock]

Arsenal SGL-21-61 with a few mods:


I paid $560 for the rifle during the big sale 2 years ago.

Arsenal single stage trigger group $29
cnc warrior flash suppressor $29
used vltor tube $65
stag arms m4 stock body $18
tapco retainer plate $5
ultimak m1b $88.20
bushnell trs-25 $73

i sold off the original buttstock off the rifle so right now I have $827 ish into it and some spare parts.

[Patriot Prepper]

Glad to hear the kinks are getting ironed out. Have the different manufacturers settled on a single magazine design?

Thanks

No they use various magazines and probably always will. Even the internal parts are not all interchangeable. But they do not have to be. The AR platform in .308 is not like the AR 15 where most parts and mags are interchangeable. But it does not have to be. Magazines for a Glock cannot be used in a Sig, etc. The Rock River uses the inch or metric FAL mags. They are easy to get and relatively cheap.

[Patriot Prepper]

The OP seems too broad and has turned into a defense weapon thread. I am surprised and impressed by the great number of AK supporters, I tend to believe you actually use and shot your rifles and can also distinguish between shooting at the range and RL! 250 yds is however well out of the useful range of an AK and to be completely honest I wouldn't fire at that range, probably not even if I had a clean AR. Fortunately I'm capable of carrying more than one weapon and the remy 700 would also be on my back for such range.

I believe I understand what Jeremiah is saying and can relate to it. There have been kill shots at about 1,200 yards with a .308 win/7.62 Nato rifle. But for me, the effective range for my .308 for self defense is about 500 or 600 yards. Can I shoot further? Yes. But at 500 yards there are many factors that I do not have to "think" about and still be effective. I also shoot my AR at 300 yards, but I consider it a close combat weapon and would not want to HAVE to shoot it at that range unless there were no other choices. I would rather shoot a .308 either bolt or semi at 300 yards. In my view I do not consider the AR an effective weapon at 300 yards for MY USE. Yes there are guys who have killed people past 500 yards with an AR. In the same vein, I would not want to have to use an AK at 300 yards. Can it be done? Yes. Is it the best tool at 300 yards? No, not in my opinion. I think there are better options.

As far as carrying two long guns, yes it can be done. When the SHTF, I will hopefully be at one of my retreats. Once I am on my property, I will not be walking miles. I will be at most walking a matter of less than a mile to cover the perimeters. In that event, I could carry a .308 bolt action or semi as well as an AR plus ammo. I would not need too much food, if I am on my property. Of course, in a close combat situation, it would not be practical to carry more than one weapon. But that is what I am trying to avoid.

We have a Marine sniper in our group with over 19 confirmed kills. His influence has taught me to think differently. Instead of grabbing the AR and confronting the enemy at close range, I want to think stealth, stalking, and attempt to put as many several hundred yards of precision shooting between me and the enemy. Just a different way of thinking. At 300 yards, a bolt action Remington 700 can be a very effective combat weapon, more so than an AK - maybe that is only an opinion - and maybe that is what Jeremiah was intending.

If you look at the battle records of persons using an AK or an AR, you will notice more than anything how many time they miss. It does not matter how well trained they are or think they are. In Vietnam it took about 50,000 shots to kill one enemy. The sniper did it in 1.7 shots. Now if people here believe they will be super effective at 300 yards using an AK, if they train well, in the right circumstances, they can be. But it sure does not beat a bolt action 7.62 in the hands of someone as equally trained.


One of the reasons I like this forum is that most of the time, people are very polite to each other. I think arguments and name calling can be avoided if we try to understand each other. If we start fighting within, we are divided. I believe everyone has something to offer, maybe a different point of view. This forum is one of the best out there for courtesy and I hope it remains that way. God bless and Keep on Prepping.

[golfroot]

For the record, I walk between 6 to 10 miles per shift with 15#+ of gear on.

I usually take the stairs, too. ;)

[protus]

Now if people here believe they will be super effective at 300 yards using an AK, if they train well, in the right circumstances, they can be.

insert any firearm there, not just the AK.
300 yards is not far, and i doubt most see it as a standard to grab the AK if the threat is that far out and they are aware of it.

scenerio plays a bunch to it.
So does humping two rifles, and the gear to support those rifles. Even if your playing super sniper ,what else is your team doing..........supporting you or being the DM?

[Lowdown3]

Their is a difference also between trying to carry two rifles during a bugout- which is what I was referring to in my earlier post- and having another rifle at an OP, already pre-positioned at a key spot, etc. at your retreat.

Is the AK the "best" choice at distance, no and I don't think anyone ever said that. But carrying two long guns during a BUGOUT or on an EXTENDED PATROL scenario is a different matter all together.

Around the retreat, sure their might be times when you realize the threat is more distant and have the time to manuever, acquire a more distant weapon, etc.

OP's , fighting positions and "key" areas can have secondary weapons like scoped rifles already pre-positioned. Again, this is different than some Jeremiah Johnson trying to carry everything on his back through the woods lugging two long guns.

The next best option and always a good option, is to have one person in every 4 to 6 people trained and equipped as a designated marksman.

[Bull]

This is the almost complete M1A, SOCOM 16. It has a few upgrades: SEI muzzle brake, front and rear sights, Bassett Machine scope mount, Accupoint 1-4 scope, Sadlak op rod spring guide, Sage EBR stock, Larue vertical front grip, USGI gas cylinder and piston, USGI trigger group, and I'm waiting for the USGI bolt to show up, so I can have it head spaced and put on. I took it to the range yesterday and shot about 200 rounds. I shoots and feels real good. I was able to get about 2 inch, 5 shot groups at 100 yards. I'm sure the gun can probably do better, so as I shoot it more I expect to be able to tighten that up. It's a bit heavier because of the stock, but still easily manageable while shooting standing up. I wish I could find a place where I could shoot on the move, and at various targets. Anyway, I finally got it all together with this one and thought I would share it with you folks.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Thats awful pretty, you ever decide to trade it i got a real good 10-22:)

[protus]

no matt , i already offered him a ha nd r single 20 and a mossberg single shot 22lr..perfect shtf combo after all :P

[Grinnan Barrett]

If I am going to have to defend the realm, then it would be a Kalishnakov action. The AK especially from Arsenal or a custom build is my choice. I love some of the older Chinese type 86s for their compactness. If it isn't going to be the AK variant then it would be an M1A.

By the way there is nothing wrong with the Cetme/HK91. The Cetme is the original gun. the HK is a licensed copy made in Germany. Cetme was an original WW2 German Design that was spirited out of Germany into Spain at the end of the war. It is clumsy and awkward to shoot but shoot it does. My son and I just finished building a new PTR91 with the correct number of compliant parts and the remainder NEW HK. I was surprised that it turned out to be a nail driver. My son's gun now. To reach out and touch someone I would go with the 7.62x51. To have as an all round battle rifle it would be the AK. Love my prebans.

[45B]

Try the Tech Sights for your AK and you will love them.

They move the sight distance back and are just what a shooter trained in peep sights needs to shoot the AK better.

I have installed them on several peoples AK's and never heard anyone who did not like them better that the stock sights.

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

Try the Tech Sights for your AK and you will love them.

They move the sight distance back and are just what a shooter trained in peep sights needs to shoot the AK better.

I have installed them on several peoples AK's and never heard anyone who did not like them better that the stock sights.

45B,
I have read good things about these sites. I'll post the link to Tech Sights. They have sites for several long guns.

[hardin]

it would have to be a garand

[Firestorm]

my SHTF rifle with out knowing what is really going on is the FAL. A G1 Kit. It is set up with a 3x9 Redfield accutrack. If the need to hit something past 500, it can be done. Things closer in, the open sites are used unless time allows the use of the scope. Found a seethru riser for the mounts to allow the use of the open sites. Has the bybod already. No other toys mounted on it.

IMHO I would rather carry 120 rds of 308 then 200 or more of anything else.
the 308 goes through things better no matter the range.
it can stop what ever is headed your way better.
and if one loads ones own rounds they have a choice from 110gr to 220gr / ap-hp-fmj-match or what ever.

My BO load is 100 aps and 20 hp (hp for hunting if not needed for other things).

The down side is, it is long and has some weight to it.

But when all is said and done a rifle that someone can handle well wins ever time. :)