ran a test ak vs ar

[Lowdown3]

If you were in the Russian army, would you prefer an AK or an AR?

The debate was about reliability. Now it's a IDPA match? LOL

[1Admin]

Protus, ergonomics and combat accuracy are very much part of a combat rifle.

The contest...

I said OUT to 300M.

We can hash out a course of fire that includes targets from 10-300 yards with weapons abuse in between. I suggest...

El Pres @ ten yards on IPSC paper = 12 rounds x 8 reps = 96 rounds (time+ penalties)

burry the weapons in dirt dust covers open

10 rnd positions drill, ->standing -> kneeling -> prone thats 10 rnds each on 2/3 IPSC steel @ 100 yards (hits/time) x 3 reps = 90 rounds

bury the weapons in mud w/ dust covers on w/muzzle caps for safety

10 round positions drill except with targets at 100, 200 and 300 X three reps = 90 rounds (hits/time)

then, since I said 300 rounds we take one magazine and stack up cinderblocks filled with dirt... who makes the most disappear at 100 yards?

we both use stock irons to make it even

any malfunctions are cleared on the clock just like combat

Each rep is a contest and the one who wins the most is a winner

AND

To answer your question I had an AK for years. I've put a couple thousand rounds through WASRs, MAK90s and a little out of an Arsenal. I've got no particular beef against AKs if you want a 100 yard ergonomic nightmare of a rifle with crap sights... more power to you. I've got several friends with AKs and have one tucked away safe.

Its all fun talking about guns on the internet right... but when a member of SEAL team six is charging into a building what are the probably carrying? When a delta sniper is working a hiltop in A-stan what are they doing it with? What gun do Aussie and UK Special forces carry? (Even though their big army carries other stuff?) What gun wins every major 3 gun match reliability counts there too, and money is on the line)? What gun dominates service rifle competitions? What do all the high end gun instructors use? What might be the reason for that?

And any of what you posted has to do with the RIFLE and not the shooter? Are we going to "score" targets also?

Their was a point here somewhere, I think it's in the next county over now.

The "time" has what exactly to do with reliability of the gun?

Fudge it, never mind. Like I said previously, this is going nowhere.... :)

Here is my contact email, I am a very easy going person, feel free to contact me for real if you'd like to shoot sometime. If you have an AR that truly is reliable, I'd like to check it out, possibly shoot it if it's o.k. with you and then maybe I'll eventually buy one- perhaps, just perhaps the third time is the charm??? LOL

jrhenterprises@dishmail.net

We can continue this discussion via email if you'd like. It does not seem like it's going anywhere. It won't continue here. Your set in your ways and I'm set in mine. :)

I'm in S. Georgia, not sure where "South Coast" is, but I travel to FL, GA, AL, TN, SC fairly regularly for training. Any of the hundreds of folks on the board that have met me in person will tell I'm an easy going guy. If your in this area, I would like to meet and try your rifle out.

[jmsneorrcom]

on the military Channel there was a show called top ten rifles. the number two rifle by there judging was the M-16 and the top winner was the Ak 47 - I am about 2 months from buying a MBR and I think I am going to go with the AK - my choice is of cost of the weapon, magazines and ammo - I do have to admit that I was hesitant because of my own biased about using a communist weapon and my prior training with the M16 courtesy of the US army, but looking at the cost of ARs I think for a prepper family guy an AK is the choice for me.
They are both fine weapons, each with its good points and bad points. There was a show on history channel that showed a AK47 that was buried in a weapons cache, the soldiers pulled it out of the ground were it had been for a couple of years and it shot a full magazine with no stoppages, I know for a fact that you could not do that with other types of Rifles

[Currahee]

If you were in the Russian army, would you prefer an AK or an AR?

The debate was about reliability. Now it's a IDPA match? LOL

So why don't you use an HR 12 gauge if accuracy and ergonomics don't matter to you? FWIW I have no problem with AR reliability and have seen dozens of them shoot every month for years.

The Admin needs one too because he doesn't think time or accuracy are important.

Oh, and if you think I described an IDPA match you need to attend a few.

I am going to respectfully disagree with the part in blue. I know first hand of a number who prefer the AK, but use the AR platform simply due to the amount of training time they have on it, as well as logistics reasons.

They could train with the AK, it's tons cheaper. I've had the good fortune of shooting with a few with their personally owned guns. They were ARs (well there was an SIG in there as well.)

on the military Channel there was a show called top ten rifles. the number two rifle by there judging was the M-16 and the top winner was the Ak 47 - I am about 2 months from buying a MBR and I think I am going to go with the AK - my choice is of cost of the weapon, magazines and ammo - I do have to admit that I was hesitant because of my own biased about using a communist weapon and my prior training with the M16 courtesy of the US army, but looking at the cost of ARs I think for a prepper family guy an AK is the choice for me.
They are both fine weapons, each with its good points and bad points. There was a show on history channel that showed a AK47 that was buried in a weapons cache, the soldiers pulled it out of the ground were it had been for a couple of years and it shot a full magazine with no stoppages, I know for a fact that you could not do that with other types of Rifles

Cost, THAT is a good reason to own an AK (and why they are so darned prolific around the world as well.) If you don't want to rapidly shoot people from 3-300 meters then it's not a bad choice, most people don't put in that kind of practice anyway.

Anytime ya'll want to shoot anything against me I'm available. I do it monthly (but usually only 100 or so rounds $$$ you know) I don't do 2000 round mag dumps into a hill though... because that is not a realistic measure of a combat rifle.

Anyway, I've had fun goring your sacred cows. I can be contacted.

[1Admin]

Anyway, I've had fun goring your sacred cows. I can be contacted.

Hope it was worth it.

I made myself pretty clear-

We can continue this discussion via email if you'd like

[fallout boy]

cop friend o f mine has a Colt we shot one time and it stoped up after ten shots, i'll stay with my SK

[protus]

Protus, ergonomics and combat accuracy are very much part of a combat rifle.

ergonomics-Physical ergonomics: is concerned with human anatomical, and some of the anthropometric, physiological and bio mechanical characteristics as they relate to physical activity.Ergonomics is the study of designing equipment and devices that fit the human body( c and p'd from wikpedia)

Again IMHO ergonomics is personal prefrence. Are you built like me? Me like you?
Of course i suspect many still can pick apart a weapons system and say that becuase the safety is "here" on one platform and not "there" on another that , this is now an ergonomics issue.
However, why?
Is it because the shooter is not properly trained in the platform or has not put in the proper amount of training to manipulate the rifle as it should be ( aka muscle memory etc) or to an effcient and effective manner.
We can use examples grip angle, charging handles, sights, LOP, weight, safetys etc. They are variable controlled by each individual shooter, and not nessarily the rifle's. Which is why i say it isnt viable.


Combat accuracy-
This term can be debated for ever as well.
Are we talking typical under 2-4 moa at X distance (like what they did for testing such rifles like the FAL,HK,M1a etc etc etc)
Or
Are we talking hits made in a X sized area ( for talks sake lets say 12x15 )
Or
are we talking any hits made on the adversary/target

The last two are what i consider it.

This is also part(or should be) of your challenge. Score for points made on areas of a target is not combat accuracy , but that of the shooter( again due to things like breathing,skill,thetype of posistion, physical limitations, sun in the eyes, dirt in the mouth, you get the idea.) Unless the human variable is removed, it is not rifle vs rifle.


no sacred cows here bro......you know i love given you AR guys some grief........next thing your gonna tell me you love kifaru gear to huh :)

hell if i wanted i 'd say my k98 is more robust and dependable than both the AR and AK combined ;P

[610Alpha]

i just want to see vids of the tests :)

I realized that I had a bias towards the AK due to it being a Commie gun. I admit it but after watching Sons of Guns drop one in the mud and bury it then pull it out and shoot it....I had an epiphany!!!!!!

[Rascal]

Larry Vickers did a pretty good torture test on an AR on his new show TAC TV.

[Spock]

So why don't you use an HR 12 gauge if accuracy and ergonomics don't matter to you? FWIW I have no problem with AR reliability and have seen dozens of them shoot every month for years.

The Admin needs one too because he doesn't think time or accuracy are important.

Oh, and if you think I described an IDPA match you need to attend a few.



They could train with the AK, it's tons cheaper. I've had the good fortune of shooting with a few with their personally owned guns. They were ARs (well there was an SIG in there as well.)



Cost, THAT is a good reason to own an AK (and why they are so darned prolific around the world as well.) If you don't want to rapidly shoot people from 3-300 meters then it's not a bad choice, most people don't put in that kind of practice anyway.

Anytime ya'll want to shoot anything against me I'm available. I do it monthly (but usually only 100 or so rounds $$$ you know) I don't do 2000 round mag dumps into a hill though... because that is not a realistic measure of a combat rifle.

Anyway, I've had fun goring your sacred cows. I can be contacted.

3-300m? I finished 11th the last time I shot a carbine match out of 44 shooters. with a lightly modded SGl21-61. with irons. I regularly practice at 280 yards on steel. name the range I'll drive.

[Spock]

Larry Vickers did a pretty good torture test on an AR on his new show TAC TV.

Larry Vickers is a shill for Daniel Defense. I watched that crap. The only thing that I saw that was impressive was the Aimpoint took a hell of a beating and kept going.

[Rascal]

Larry Vickers is a shill for Daniel Defense. I watched that crap. The only thing that I saw that was impressive was the Aimpoint took a hell of a beating and kept going.

That it did. So do you think the test was rigged?

[protus]

That it did. So do you think the test was rigged?

arent most...... ;)

[Rascal]

arent most...... ;)

I don't know...are they? I'd be interested to hear about it/them.

[Mikeg175]

I haven't seen the video , but most tests/reviews are biased towards who is giving them free gear and/or advertising in their magazine/website . You are not going to poo on the guy putting money in your pocket . You may not even know your doing it .