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  • Shooting passive

    Little quick into to "passive" NV shooting.

    The concept is to not put any infrared out there while shooting. In other words, to not use an IR laser to aim nor an IR illuminator for the target.

    There is good and bad to this approach and like everything, we should follow the "never say never, never say always" approach to looking this. Or as they say it's "situational dependent" or METT-C, and they have probably added more T's and C's by now to that...

    For shorter range engagements as well as under good illumination passive works just fine. For the standard "gun range" conditions where a target is clearly identified, where there is likely a lot of either ambient light or maybe even some residual background illumination via electric lights, etc. passive really shines here.

    It's down in the swamps, where maybe a bit of PID is needed before the shot is taken, is where you can have problems with it. This is why the "have both" (IR laser/illum capability as well as shooting passive ability) answer is the best IMO.

    People approach passive shooting differently but the general idea is with your NODs helmet mounted, you are viewing the dot from your weapon sight through the NV tube(s). We are NOT mounting the PVS14 to the rifle itself! That's NOT what we are talking about here.

    And yes, you can shoot "passive" with either a single tube PVS14 or a dual tube set like a Katana, RNVG, BNVD, etc.

    You will likely find you need to get your daylight optic up a little higher via a riser mount. This will be put the optic in better view of the NV tube(s). You may not need one of these "skyscraper" type mounts, as there are disadvantages on going too high as well.

    What you will LIKELY need to do is to stop "turkey necking"- something most people have been doing their whole shooting lives and not even realizing the disadvantages of it. What I mean is not cranking your neck sideways to the stock. Instead, keep your head more erect. You may need a little higher shoulder position to mount the rifle as well. Every situation is different- body types, gear your wearing, how your optic is mounted and where, etc. So this is where experimentation and practice comes in.

    If your rifle is set up with an optic like an ACOG, you may find the easiest approach is to add an RMR on top of the ACOG. This will accomplish the additional height you need as well as making the dot sight easier to pick up than the ACOG. Most of my rifles are set up this way. I've heard people say you "have" to use an LED version of an RMR to shoot passive, but none of my are LED, there are all dual illuminated (need no batteries) and I've never had any issues shooting passive with them.

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    Ditto with pistol- an RMR type sight there is the quickest, easiest way to go IMO. This was from last night's range trip, 15 yards pistol, right and left handed, wouldn't call it "rapid" fire but it was quick, approximately 120 rounds from a Glock 19 with dual illuminated RMR with amber dot. Was running my Katanas with Elbit high spec WP tubes, cloudy and overcast but with a fair amount of moonlight breaking through. This is fairly similar to what I would do during the day, which is the result we should be striving for- similar shooting results day and night.

    The big advantage of passive aiming is of course no IR going out. Let's face it, night vision is extremely common now, everyone has it and even some BS digital russian craposki device can see IR, so where possible you want to avoid spewing out volumes of IR, especially in a two way range situation. However no matter what we do, no matter if we have and how good a suppressor or flash hider we are using, you are never going to TOTALLY erase your signature once the gun goes off.

    The tiny bit of muzzle flash is what the old Vietnam era SF guys taught us to shoot at 30 years ago in the deepest darkest swamps. Shooting at small 1 inch cyalume "fishing" lights stuck to the center of black silhouette targets with no illumination, no fancy electronic sights back then, just iron sights. And we learned to make the hits with nothing. One of the guys asked what the small lightstick was for and got the reply "at night in the jungle, that might be all you see of the enemy." The small lightstick was simulating enemy muzzle flash.

    The point is to bring home the fact that you will always have SOME signature, we do want to reduce it where possible, but not get obsessive or thinking that passive is the "only way." There are times when conditions suck, distances are further, PID is needed, etc. and that's where your IR will come in.

    I can shoot passive via all my common rifles, but each one still has an IR laser and illuminator on them also. We should seek to have both capabilities IMO.


    www.homesteadingandsurvival.com

    www.survivalreportpodcast.com

    "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed..."

  • #2
    Here is a couple examples of rifles that are set up to shoot "passive"-

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    The top is a BCM AR with a 3X30 ACOG mounted on a Unity tactical mount. I've been very pleased with that Unity mount and will at some point in the future replace all my ACOG mounts with those. On top of the ACOG is a dual illuminated (not LED) RMR dot sight also made by Trijicon. Between the slight height rise with the Unity mount and the fact that the RMR is above the ACOG, this ends up being the perfect height *for me* for this use.

    Below is an Arsenal AK SBR with a Trijicon MRO dot sight on a "full witness" mount. I can see the iron sights through the base of this one ("full witness").


    A customer new to NV recently called and asked could he use his iron sights and go passive. That's not really going to work for most people, Really you need some sort of illuminated dot or reticle to work passively well. Although to be truthful I've had a student in class that was shooting a Beretta pistol during part of the pistol instruction that had partial tritium sights and he was shooting passive NV with it and making decent hits.

    That being said, for a rifle, even a cheapie $100. dot sight possibly on a riser, is going to make your life a helluva lot easier than iron sights when trying to shoot passive.
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    www.homesteadingandsurvival.com

    www.survivalreportpodcast.com

    "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed..."

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    • #3
      Good write up...

      As a side.
      What's your thoughts on the use/need/scenario for white light use.

      in real thick stuff would either be beneficial. I know white light washes out on everything ( broad leaf/palmetto etc) here as i literally live on a set from VN movie lol. I could see how passive could be advantageous if there's enough ambient light.
      I know have both is a means but just making talk as NV is still a wish list item for me...and my experience is limited.
      Hey Petunia...you dropped your man pad!

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      • #4
        IMO, passive is going to work most of the time, especially at closer ranges.

        If you think about your flashlight analogy, using an IR laser or illuminator kinda works the same way- you will get that wash out here and there.

        At class when we work angles slicing the pie and doing drop outs, you tend to see a little backlighting with the IR lasers like you would with improper flashlight use also. I usually demonstrate this at the start so as to give them a heads up, but it tends to happen at first, then less and less once students get a little practice in.

        If I was going into NV with the idea of solely going passive only, I would probably try to find the best performing tube I could afford- with the idea that if I'm "never" going to use additional IR then you may need the performance difference from say a 2500 FOM un filmed unit versus 1900 FOM thin film unit. Not that you "can't" do it with a lesser tube, but if the goal was to go passive like ALL THE TIME, then you would get more out of a better tube. And if your not spending $800-1600. on an IR laser/illuminator, you could put that money towards a better performing NOD.

        That being said, I've done passive shooting with lower FOM models without an issue.

        The potential problem with ALL passive would be PID. Which would also point towards the "best tube you can buy" answer if absolutely no IR is to be used.

        Something like a Luna ELIR3 or the illuminator from a D2 within a couple hundred yards would definitely make PID a helluva lot easier.
        www.homesteadingandsurvival.com

        www.survivalreportpodcast.com

        "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed..."

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        • #5
          Got ya. Thanks for taking the time to answer .
          I gotta stop being a cheap arse lolol
          Hey Petunia...you dropped your man pad!

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