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  • Orchards

    Orchards-

    The first things I recommend for people to do after they get a place in the country is to put in and stock a pond and plant an orchard.

    You can build a chicken pen in a weekend, buy some chickens and be up and running with them in a day. You can buy or build rabbit hutches and rabbits and be up and running with them in the same day. Orchards and ponds are longer term projects requiring more time investment before they are up and running. Therefore it's best to take care of these things FIRST.

    These two items take a few years to really start producing for you, however they offer several advantages.

    * They require very little work- besides initial establishment of a pond or orchard, there isn't a lot of time required for maintenance . A few hours mowing here and there plus some time pruning, spraying and fertilizing for the orchard. Twenty minutes fertilizing and doing the occasional liming of the pond.

    * They are "less seen" food production items. If someone infiltrates your retreat they are more likely to steal from your garden or your livestock than your pond or orchard. Even if they steal fruit from your trees, which is only available a short period of time every year, they would be hard pressed to destroy the tree without being noticed.

    * No noise involved- livestock makes noise and smells. I'm not saying don't have livestock, we do. All I'm saying is ponds and orchards have less of a "signature" than cows, goats and chickens. Fruit trees can be hidden in clusters. Contrary to popular belief, they will grow well amongst forest trees. Having a half dozen hidden in the woods could come in very handy. Course the deer love them to, so it makes a great place to set a stand up near.

    Don't underestimate the amount of trees necessary. A lot of survival writers who don't actually have experience in growing fruit in an orchard will tell you that 3 or 4 trees will produce all the fruit a family of four needs for a year. Maybe they are talking about full size trees that have been in the ground for 10 or 15 years and are meticulously cared for, I don't know.

    We used to have a very animated friend that we helped plant a few trees with. He planted two scrawny apple trees about 7 years ago at a hunting club property. I mentioned to him that he might want to add a few more. His reply was "are you kidding, I'll get a truckload of apples from these next year!" 7 years later one tree is dead and this is the FIRST YEAR the remaining tree produced any apples, about enough for one pie. So much for "truckloads."

    We consider 10 trees per person an absolute minimum for semi-dwarf trees.

    Some misc. items to consider regarding fruit trees and orchards. Please keep in mind I'm in the Southern United States, certain recommendations may not apply for your area.

    * Use drip irrigation. It's very easy to install and maintain. At the lowest point in your irrigation install a ball valve that you can use to completely drain the lines every winter.

    * Use Bo Smith type emitters. We had problems with the sediment in our water clogging the cheaper emitters. We have strung spaghetti tubing from the emitters to the trunk of the trees, then left it up about six inches out of the ground. This way you can walk by and verify by sight that the tree is in fact getting water. We first buried the spaghetti lines, but it was impossible to tell for sure if water was getting to the trees unless you left the irrigation on long enough to truly flood the ground near the tree.

    * Don't overprune. Remember the main reason for pruning is to control growth. Stick to removing of branches that are out of whack. Keep in mind also if heavy fruit set becomes a problem for a branch that you can thin the fruit to save weight on the branch. Be ruthless when doing this to avoid losing branches to the weight of heavily laden fruit.

    * Get your trees from a local nursery that has been in business no less than 10 years. Search around if you have to. You want to go to someone who truly knows what they are talking about. This does not mean Jimmy at the StuffMart garden center. He will likely sell you trees that may not produce in your area. Know the "chill hours" needed for each variety and know the hours normal to your area. There is nothing worse than buying and planting a variety that won't produce in your area, then nursing it along for six years, trust me, waste of time, space and money!

    * Avoid the exotic stuff no matter the advertising claims. Yes we feel for this stuff also. "Cold hardy" bananas, citrus, etc. We have a well known nursery about 2 hours from us that specializes in this crap. Supposedly "cold hardy" to -10 degrees. In almost 7 years it has never gotten below 18 degrees here and 3 bananas and 2 citrus trees all "cold hardy" to -10 did not make it. Don't waste your money.

    * Plant in clusters for pollination value. Pretty much everything needs a pollinator. Plan your planting so that trees that pollinate others are very close by, preferably in a block of trees. Having a few hives of bees will help with this also.

    * Plant early and often. Get your trees in as soon as you get property. They will need the time to get producing. Plant a few new trees every year even if you have to plant them in the woods.

    * We have had little luck with "organic" solutions to pest problems. Currently we use dormant oil spray in the wintertime and early spring before buds start to form. As necessary we will use stronger pesticides but this is rarely necessary. You may get to the point where you have to spray pesticides to SAVE TREES. It sucks but it does happen. Use the lowest dose you can get away with but save your trees. Get used to seeing and using fruits with "blemishes." All will not be presentation quality supermarket type stuff. Even for the really ugly ones- there is always applesauce, pearsauce, etc. We just learned how to make wine, so we have yet another thing we can do with excess fruit.

    * Walk your orchard daily during the fruit season, culling fruit where necessary. Remove all diseased fruit, do not just let them drop to the ground near the tree. This may further the spread of the disease. I like to roll a wheelbarrow down the rows once a week pulling the culls to give to the chickens. What doesn't feed us feeds the other animals who in turn feed us.

    * Apples and pears make up about 90% of our orchards. I did some experiments last year and found that most of the apples would remain edible on the tree for about a month- getting softer as time went on. The pears varied on time, depending on whether they were the "hard cooking type" pear or the softer eating pears. The hard cooking type pears remained edible on the trees for almost 2 months. This is an important thing to consider and factor for your area. Leaving the fruit on the tree allows you to eat what you need and save more for later- kinda like keeping animals alive till your ready to eat them- storage "on the hoof", this is storage "on the branch." Also, in normal times, it's nice to know you have a window of opportunity to pick and process fruits. Sometimes work schedules will not allow taking a day or two off to can fruit.

    * Organic growing was not producing what we needed as far as tree growth, health of the trees and fruit production. While we attempt not to use any pesticides, we have in times past used them and will in the future if it means saving a tree. We use commercial 10-10-10 fertilizer every spring along with about 20 lbs. of cow manure at the base of each tree. We have had good results from this mix.

    * When planting, allow for a hole that's 1 and 1/2 times the size of the roots of the tree. I prefer container grown trees. We have an excellent local nursery that provides 2 and 3 year old trees for around $7.00 per tree. We've even had trees produce the first year we bought them. Make sure you do NOT add fertilizer into the hole that you plant the tree in to. Doing this will damage the delicate feeder roots, the small hairlike roots.

    Our video page



    Has a six part series on Growing fruit trees to further your study.
    Boris- "He's famous, has picture on three dollar bill!"

    Rocky- "Wow! I've never even seen a three dollar bill!"

    Boris- "Is it my fault you're poor?"

  • #2
    I planted about 30 fruit trees -apple, peach, pear, plum and cherry when I got my place 3 years ago. This will be the first year that I have anything more than peaches. I figured 5 years from bareroot seedlings to the start of good production. I am trying to add 5 to 10 trees every other year to have different age cl***es and in a slightly different location and to expand the varieties. I also started a few elderberry plants and some paw paw trees.
    A couple of things to keep in mind is that some require pollinaters and a few require more than one pollonater and a beehive will help your yield. I plan to put in bees next spring both honey bees and mason bees.

    Comment


    • #3
      We saw a major increase in pollination once we started keeping bees also.
      Boris- "He's famous, has picture on three dollar bill!"

      Rocky- "Wow! I've never even seen a three dollar bill!"

      Boris- "Is it my fault you're poor?"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 1Admin View Post
        We saw a major increase in pollination once we started keeping bees also.
        where is a good source to obtain starting supplies? Something I am interested in, as well as the orchard..

        Comment


        • #5
          Interesting. I have one plum tree producing right now. Last year I canned 22 pints of plums. I have another plum tree planted but I don't believe we would ever need more than one. I have two hazelnut "bushes". They are without a doubt the biggest, bushiest "bushes" I have ever planted. They produce great. I still have a whole bag of them sitting in the freezer from last year, still in the shell, because we hate shelling them and hardly use them. I am hoping this years will be bigger and easier to shell. I have 3 fig trees. One has grown entirely too large and produces hardly any figs. I wish I had cut it back severely every couple years like my friend does (the one I got the fig tree from), she gets lots of good fruit. The other two are still growing but this next year or the year after they will be large enough to cut back. I tried a peach, yup, it died. I think I have tried every exotic around, they all died. One of the blueberries finally produced and then the fig tree grew so large, it shaded everything on that side of the house. Strawberries were great, unfortunately they were on that side of the house too but I plan to plant more down by the garden in a raised bed down there. I have tried to encourage blackberries here and have a few but never too many, sometimes I collect down the road. Muscadines grow better wild than on the vines that I have, easier to collect them from the woods. I have a couple pecan trees and a chestnut tree started and one apple tree (my wonderful other half cut the other apple tree down by mistake one day thinking it was a weed, I will get another).
          In case I didn't mention, we have just over an acre here.

          Comment


          • #6
            Time to get busy on new or expanded orchards for 2013, at least south of the Mason Dixon line. Pruning and planting for this year should be done as soon as possible. Fertilizing and grafting should start within the next couple weeks.

            If you have suckers or volunteers coming up around your established trees you can try digging them up and re-planting or potting them. Once they get roots established in their new homes you can graft and get good free known variety trees for the following year.

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            • #7
              Thanks for the information. I don't think we will have enough room to plant as many as you recommend, but we currently have three peach and two apple (planted spring 2012), with plans to add more apple trees this spring.

              Comment


              • #8
                Looking for some advice with planting fruit trees.
                Now that we have the inside of the new house complete, its time to start "branching" out. About 2/3's of usable area is now cleared (will have to wait until fall/winter to do the rest)
                I have clay soil in the front yard and a sandy loam in the back
                In the front its drier but I have an irrigation system (didnt find out about this until a month after I moved in)
                In the back there are 3 springs and with all the rain lately I have found where the water flows and holds.

                Our wants:

                Apples
                Pears
                Peaches
                Blueberries
                Blackberries
                Plums
                Pecans
                Grapes



                Could someone with some REAL experience please school me on whens the best time to plant, varieties to get, etc. I am in Central GA Zone 8.

                I have never dabbled in the fruit tree area and with my new property, its top 5 on the agenda.


                Grasshopper is all ears!
                You know what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like this?

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                • #9
                  Here's my take:

                  Start planning now. Go to the UGA website and you'll find volumes of information about which varieties of the fruit you listed will do best in your area. You might try Auburn's extension service (www.aces.edu) as well since they are right next door.

                  Choose different varieties that will give you the longest harvest duration. By planting early, mid and late maturing types you can extend your availability of fresh fruit from a couple weeks to several months. I'm attaching a couple files showing the varieties I chose and the harvest period.

                  Plant in late winter/early spring. Spacing will depend on what size trees you want - dwarf, semi dwarf or full size. All of my trees are full size and I went 24 feet apart in all directions for everything except the pecans. Those are 40 feet apart. Probably could have gone less that that.

                  Segregate - keep apples close to apples, pears with pears, ect to get better pollenation.

                  What they say about a $20 dollar hole for a $10 tree - that is true. And even better, replace that clay soil with some dirt from the woods when you backfill around the roots of your new trees. Make a little lip around the outer perimeter of the hole to help it hold water if you have to irrigate.

                  I've had good luck with bare root trees from reputable nurseries. These are less expensive than potted trees from the big box stores and can be shipped. They will take a couple more years to produce and take more attention the first year but you can plant 3 bare trees for the price of one potted tree. You might want to plant a few potted trees to get limited earlier production and also plant bare trees to increase the volume over the long run.
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    great info..
                    getting us some plum trees.

                    some of our trees are in holes i dug with a 12" auger.. this made the job go fast, BUT
                    the surrounding soil didn't get softened up and the soil quality didn't get improved, and thank you again mote.

                    i just checked on the fig trees we planted a couple of years ago.. just a few figs..
                    admin, you are sure right... get them in the ground "first year"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      We pruned heavy and thinned a few trees this year. Between that and the monsoon, it wasn't a stellar year for fruits for us.

                      The rains have helped a new dozen or so trees get well established in a new area though, which is good.
                      www.homesteadingandsurvival.com

                      www.survivalreportpodcast.com

                      "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed..."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        peaches gone. blueberries gone. figs fading.
                        pears are coming next.. just a few trees, but loaded.. limbs are breaking.
                        we should have pruned!
                        last year we had very few pears... this year the trees are loaded. i'm crediting it
                        to the heavy rains.. ?? i need and want to learn more quickly.
                        i'm learning here and a few advisors.. but the advisors sometimes conflict...
                        a nearby county has a course in gardening that the county extension office sponsors.
                        several month process.. classes/fieldtrips are twice a week. cost 130. thinking about it. i'm trying to remember the phrase.. i'm investigating it! checking it out! i'm doing a chart! i don't want to make a mistake, so i'm doing my research! THAT'S IT.. oops sorry for shouting.. but, the ole memory finally worked... that's the phrase i was looking for. "i'm doing my research."
                        rr

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                        • #13
                          One thing I have realized from riding around in my area, scoping neighbors (qpublic is a good site), looking at routes, etc is that I see TONS of fruit trees on peoples properties that have been FULL for weeks and it seems like they arent even picking it. I saw an apple tree yesterday where it looked like the apples were rotting. It kinda ticks me off living out in the country and seeing stuff go to waste. I thought this was practice of suburban wave riding dumbsday preppers. I guess this is the Captain Nature Guy in me.
                          I can only hope that when we get ours going that I never look back and say damn I am that guy who doesnt take the time to utilize my resources.


                          My wife and I have talked about canning and even dehydrating and storing in mylar and even selling some of the abundance
                          You know what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like this?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by WiseOwl View Post
                            One thing I have realized from riding around in my area, scoping neighbors (qpublic is a good site), looking at routes, etc is that I see TONS of fruit trees on peoples properties that have been FULL for weeks and it seems like they arent even picking it. I saw an apple tree yesterday where it looked like the apples were rotting. It kinda ticks me off living out in the country and seeing stuff go to waste. I thought this was practice of suburban wave riding dumbsday preppers. I guess this is the Captain Nature Guy in me.
                            I can only hope that when we get ours going that I never look back and say damn I am that guy who doesnt take the time to utilize my resources.


                            My wife and I have talked about canning and even dehydrating and storing in mylar and even selling some of the abundance
                            Feller should go ask for some then offer some canned ones afterwards as a repayment and maybe keep the seed for spring for his own orchard
                            Knowledge is Power, Practiced Knowledge is Strength, Tested Knowledge is Confidence

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                            • #15
                              If I had a blank slate on a retreat I would employ espalier techniqies in my orchard (this is where you train trees to grwo on wires and keep them prunded back to two dimensions). It is more owrk initially but the fruti density per unit area will eventually be much higher.

                              my fantasy arrangment around the retreat bulidings is that these wires run radially ur from firing positioons, so that the trees provide no cover for assailants while simultantouelsy channelling them into "kill zones."

                              I actually do the espalier orcharding at my home, but the defensive configuration was not an option there.

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