Send in the drones....

[1Admin]

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/04/16843014-exclusive-justice-department-memo-reveals-legal-case-for-drone-strikes-on-americans?lite

How nice....

But but but but but but.... it says they can only be used against Al Queda and affiliates! Well who the hell are they? Today it might be some hadji some gubmint agent is setting up with fake explosives to blow up a temple. Tomorrow it may be one of us. Think about it.... No "tinfoil" my friend, this is from the same regime that is taking your guns, assuming more and more power. Wake the fudge up!

So..... let's talk about DRONES

A good basic primer from those in the know.

What are they? How do they work? How can you spot them? Countermeasures? Pics?

Assume the readers know nothing about them. Best most informative post and research on them gets a prize :)

[Grand58742]

Yeah, caught that little tidbit on Fox. Very nice someone had to sue to get it instead of a standard FOIA request.

What are they? Chances are one of these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_MQ-1_Predator

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MQ-9_Reaper

How do they work? Typically by satellite uplink which cannot be jammed by normal folks.

How do you spot them? Annoying lawnmower overhead lol. They have a distinctive buzz when lower. However, typically operate at an altitude where sound is mitigated for the most part.

Can't go into sensors all that much, but do carry thermal, night vision and standard electro-optical types. And the resolution is very good.

Countermeasures? Like most aerial countermeasures. Tarps, covering, etc. Keeping in mind the thermal (IR) capabilities.

And further reading. Scroll down to United States:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unmanned_aerial_vehicles

Do I get a cookie?

[1Admin]

MRE cookie or dehydrated cookie mix? You choose :)

Thanks, good stuff.

Anyone else? Let's brainstorm on this issue!

[protus]

Where's all them surplus 88 flak guns cheaper than dirt had for 99$ LOL
Drones...what's scarier is the automated ones .....that are armed....talk about skynet becoming self aware ......

[qrprat77]

Breaking the comms is one thing, finding out if there is an eye in the sky is another ball game.
Anything that emits a radio signal can be subject to Direction Finding ("DFing"), the trick is understanding how to DF it.
To DF a bird like this would require specialized equipment costing in the many $10k range, mainly because you will need high speed digital sprectrum analyzers that are running faster than their Digital Spread Spectrum signals are hopping. I don't have any experience with that sort of gear, but I have seen it in action, and it is pretty awesome.
It is realitvely simple to build digital spectrum analyzers that will operate up to 440MHz, I've met guys who've done that, and you do save a bundle in the process. As you go higher in frequency though, things get higher in price very quickly.
So until we get somebody who's got Mr Awesome McGreasy DFing Gear that will operate DC to 100 Gigahertz (yep, there's been experiments on frequencies even higher than that!)

So we are stuck with monitoring things on the ground, have a network, know where the birds sleep, watch them leave the nest. Assume they are looking for you.
Something else to consider: while killing at a distance is easier than grabbing somebody by the belt, the people who fly these things do have a conscience (The System isn't totally SkyNet yet...), and will need to look their wives and children in the face everyday with the knowledge of what they may or may not be asked to do.

[tarheelsman71]

Imagine a drone the size of a hummingbird, almost silent with a camera and listening equipment installed. Then have a conversation with your GOOD friend about the state of this country, and while you have the countries best interests at heart, your frustration with the direction this country is heading leads you to some preparedness type discussions and what if scenarios. Now the information is gathered and the "right" analyst hears what you have said and your plans to store guns and food, etc. Based on the analysts perception of the conversation, you might fall under the patriot act or whatever its gonna be called tomorrow, you might have your house raided "for the greater good." You might have a semi auto handgun that is not registered to you because it was your father's. That it was your fathers probably wont make it to the storyline. You will be demonized by your food stores, and the thousand rounds of ammo you have. You reload ammo, then you have Bomb making material, so you are in fact the unibombers brother.....

Long story short, huge invasion of privacy. Not thrilled about the drones at all, but they are here to stay. Here is a little one I was reading about yesterday.

http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-mini-drone-battlefield-20130204,0,4050682.story

With greater technology with batteries and fuel efficiency the drones will be able to stay in the air longer too. With these little ones who knows how long they can stay in the air?

[SeldomSeenSlim]

The news says they fly drones all over the place around me. I've never seen or heard one. Then again my "radar array" consists of hounds and I'm pretty sure they aren't tuned for UAVs. lol I don't know anything about drones, but if they have FLIR that's similar to what the border patrol puts on their FLIR trucks it's some impressive technology. I've gotten to look on the video screen in one of the trucks and it can see a long way in the black dark and the detail is pretty amazing.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were armed drones flying over my head. I see fully armed Apache helicopters, A-10s, c-130s (or some other big plane in the same class) on a regular basis. And all manner of ground transport from horses to trucks to MRAPs to uparmored HMMWV with tow missiles (or some kind of rocket) on top. It's somewhat disconcerting when you're heading into town and down the road there's a commotion and when you pull up you realize you're the only one that isn't in an armored truck with a machine gun and air support. Kind of makes that "evil" AR between the seats seem pretty small.

I know a lot of folks just chalk it up to being on the border. Thing is the "border" keeps moving away from the actual border. I drive 50 miles north away from the border and there's a checkpoint. And there's border patrol even further north than that.

[tarheelsman71]

http://www.dudeiwantthat.com/style/clothing/stealth-wear-counter-surveillance-clothing.asp

Not sure how many of these you would have to buy to defeat thermal scan, but its an option. Israeli's have created a type that can be turned off and on for vehicles...

http://www.defense-update.com/products/b/black_fox_thermal_defense_17052010.html

[rockriver]

i have associate who went through training for a certain brand.
his description of capabilities was way beyond my understanding.
but..
the realization of end of mission capabilities made me realize that
targets had little real time defense.
rr

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Max Velocity goes into some counter measures in his book. I have no idea if they work or not, sounds plausible but like most thermal counter measures they involve tight covers or garments which are very hot on a summer days/nights.
You guys are thinking big drones, a lot of LEO agencies are fielding small ones right now. It's a huge privacy issue IMO and a serious tightrope between enforcement and the 4th.
Countermeasures, yep dont be interesting to begin with. Drones fly over thousands of people a day all we ever hear about is the "one".

[Grand58742]

You guys are thinking big drones, a lot of LEO agencies are fielding small ones right now. It's a huge privacy issue IMO and a serious tightrope between enforcement and the 4th.
Countermeasures, yep dont be interesting to begin with. Drones fly over thousands of people a day all we ever hear about is the "one".

Problem is with the smaller ones is the lack of sophisticated sensors or more of them. Smaller the package, less it has on board, i.e thermal, NV, etc. Like that little doodad the Brits had only sends single pictures back to the receiver. Highly useful, but nothing like the big boys on the block.

However, with miniaturization, I'm sure they will start making them far more sophisticated and in smaller packages in the next few years. Folks have been putting smart phones on remote controlled airplanes/helicopters and/or sending them to the edge of space and capturing pictures/video so I'm sure the technology for miniaturizing a thermal or NV camera isn't too far behind...if not out there already. Just the technology with multiple lightweight sophisticated cameras, real time data transmitters and power for all of the above while still being in controlled flight is probably a little away in the future from widespread implementation. But I'm sure there's someone thinking it up and trying it right now.

This is just a guess on my part, nothing scientific except wild guessing to back it up.

ETA: Nothing a little 7 1/2 shot won't cure lol

[survivealone]

They can now KILL AMERICANS ! And the majority stands up and applauds them for "Keeping us safe".. They aleaready destroyed the 4th amendment with the FISA act. They need No Reason to detain Americans indefinately in the US or Abroad, They detroyed the your right to privacy with the patriot act and now once again in the name of security (After they scare the hell out of everyone) They dismantle more of the constitution, And we act Surprised ??

I get so dang frustrated with this that I feel like crawling into my hole and saying Americans are stupid enough to sit and let them do this to them they deserve what they get,,,,UHG !!!

[xdpatriot]

[QUOTE=1Admin;51397

How nice....

But but but but but but.... it says they can only be used against Al Queda and affiliates! Well who the hell are they? Today it might be some hadji some gubmint agent is setting up with fake explosives to blow up a temple. Tomorrow it may be one of us. Think about it.... No "tinfoil" my friend, this is from the same regime that is taking your guns, assuming more and more power. Wake the fudge up![/QUOTE]


This was my comment.

The only thing I was gonna say was you can hear the smaller ones(man portable)when they're lower, which they are. Already said though, I believe. And there are certain things you cannot beat and/or get away from, just reality.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

The smaller ones have live feed and NV already. I'm all for the use of them in Military applications and in SOME cases LEO. I think we need to get on the ball asap on ROE. I love the tools of the trade but as an American who also enjoys his rights this can be an issue and misuse is a given from common eavesdropping authored by the department to spying on the ex girlfriend by the drone operator.
Insofar as the scum overseas who has removed himself from CONUS and graduated from common street thug to enemy combatant well you are the proverbial "foreign or domestic" and I have no issue with offing you or even being the one to do so though I cant run a gaming console but have skills in other places. I know I'm probably alone on this but I'm honest.
Insofar as the document well it was written for a purpose but like many documents it is not well written and leaves too much open for the long term and needs a lot of work.It should have never been an open ended document and should have only been applied to the mission then later modified but laziness prevailed.
It is good that many watch and discuss and don't leave it all in someone else hands. After all it is "We The People" right? I don't trust the babysitter that much so why trust anyone with my child's future and my today that much? It doesn't have to be a drudge konspiracy boogieman rant either just stay with the facts and make it right.

[WiseOwl]

These do not scare me, yet.

Seldom, I saw also the inside of one of those FLIR trucks. Like a video game. Freakin says lasers and fire on 2 buttons. Why can't I get a job like that?


Until I see them with my own 2, I am not sweating them in country/suburbia USA