Prepper vs survivalist

[protus]

While this is a rant and not a comparison . for debate reasons tell me, tell us all,what separates the two? Are they 2 different things, are the one in the same, is it like old and young....tad pole and frog.....:p


Prepper or survivalist?


Over the last 5 years there has been this influx of people that are becoming more prepared. They come from all walks of life, ages,gender and locations.Each one different in its own way, but still the same. There has in my view been a rift though. With this new surge of people that are becoming prepared is a cross section that wished to not be labeled what they are, A survivalist. Thus, a few years later we have the "prepper". If you ask someone what one is you may get a few different twist on what a prepper is. In general they prepare. But the thing that separates them for a survivalist, at least in their eyes is that the prepper is a "normal" person. This "normal" person stocks food,medical supplies, weapons,ammo, and other gear and supplies needed to "survive" any event that happens. To them these stockpiles ,along with their mindset, will be used to survive bad weather, job loss, work injury,economic hard times and if it ever goes down a real "shtf" event. Of course since they are "normal" everyday types, they of course do not dwell on world ending events, and doom and gloom end all fantasy's that would rival mad max's world. According to the "prepper" that part of preparedness is left to the "survivalist".Most preppers view, the "survivalist" as some crazy person waiting,wishing,hoping the world will come crashing to an apocalyptic end. Now, some "prepper" somewhere is getting a little annoyed by what i wrote so far. Good.

If you ask a "survivalist" what he or she is you may get the same answer. That they are everyday people preparing for what ever may happen and making key lifestyle changes to help be prepared better. Odd is it not? That two different groups say the same stuff except for one key thing? This
is why i never fully understood the reasoning behind why the "prepper" movement started. At the same time I can see what has driven it. From the mid 1980's and on, the media has done all it could to vilify the term "survivalist". Those that remember the 1990's , it seems that every time
something bad happened the bad guy was a " skin head,druggie,survivalist". For a few years nothing happened,until 9/11. Then a surge of folks who, by fear started to prep. This was short lived though. With in that to the first year after 9/11 those that "prep'd" sold their supplies or went back to "normal" life, when a second attack did not happen.Some stayed the course and reaped the benefits of it ( I scored 14 NBC filters and 3 NIW m40 mask(s,m,L, perfect family kit), with spare lenses,second skins,decon kits and bags for 100$ )from someone who panic buyed.Fast forward to Katrina, and then the past election. These last two events are the ones that were the "gas" to the prepper fire in my opinion.

So why the split. Well these new comers to "survival" feel , at least from i can tell from personal face to face talks and news articles, that a new term was needed. They felt that they are "not" what the media has labeled a "survivalist". I can clearly say that now, after meeting so many the last 2 years. That they are ,in fact NOT what the survivalist of old was nor what the media has labeled it. In fact they are doing the medias dirty work for them by continuing to spread the negative stigmatism surrounding the word "survivalist". They are the high tide right now, and riding the wave. In 2-5 years like 9/11, Y2K etc many will go back to "normal" life. This will be easy for them from what i have seen. Of course like those events in the past , many will continue to prepare . That is what separates a "survivalist" from a "prepper" in my opinion. Why would it be easy for them to go back to what they deem "normal". Many i have seen refuse to invest much time or effort in to long term supplies or lifestyle changes . They cling to how life is now. That means more means of electronics, gen sets, and can goods. Many do not have more than , nor wish to prepare past the " 2 week" mark. They claim though that "mindset" not lifestyle change will help them pull through an event. Maybe, a short term event. What if it is a long
term event? Say an economic collapse that last 3-5 years? What will that "2 weeks" worth do? With such a drive to not be that "survivalist" they are short selling themselves because they feel that such events "cant" happen and thus do not prepare for it. Lifestyle change is a long term prep. Many
do not want to make that EFFORT. It is much easier to buy,list and talk about it. The influx of liberals into preparedness since the last election i think spurrs that mindset right along. That "everything" will be alright in 1 week to 2 months and someone will be along shortly to save us. Along with this is the idea to be something different. So many have this view that they can sit around the water cooler at work, or in line at starbucks sucking down a faggotchino, and strike up a conversation...

" So,,Klye, how are those freeze dried veal cutlets you order last week taste? try any yet"
"Well Bob, they arent like the ones over at Sabino's off 5th and taylor, but Alice thinks they are pretty good.."
up walks Tom
" Hey Bob,kyle, i over heard you, freeze dried veal? Why would you have that...your not one of those tea party survivalist types are you??."

and suddenly Kyle and Bob can explain that they are "preppers" and not to worry,becuase those are Kyles "hurricane preps" hence the term prepper and can show Tom, Bobs fancy solar back pack that charges his I-phone while he is walking his retriever in the AM and now Tom is all about being
prepared.But not after 10 minutes of complaining how they wasted their vote on obama.
Happens every day at your work place right? No? why not, it seems to be the main reason for the term "prepper" , you know be more "user" friendly and all. I guess if you kick someone in the nuts at half speed it makes it better than a lets put the boys through the uprights from the 45 yard line
kick! If your dumb enough to tell tom

" oh yeah that is part of my survival stash...yeah i am one..so what, screw you Tom....you sheep.. dont come to my place asking for a hand out....Ive

got guns and ammo to outfit a small African army and know how to use them you poser....."

Then you my friend have some serious issues you need work on!

So how many of you "preppers" are reeling in your chair right now. Yelling yet? Saying to your self that i am wrong?Prove me wrong, tell me what is the difference between a survivalist and a prepper then?
I will explain what i see as the main differences. So get ready to get even more upset.

There are many similarities between the two, and maybe like a butterfly they are the same, but in different stages. That would be the nice way of saying it, but then typing all of this wouldn't be that fun!
I think that the similarities stop at lifestyle and long term planning. Many "preppers" that i have met refuse to think past 2 months. That's fine. They are way ahead of the curve if an event happens. But like the show the colony,it seems effort is wasted more of projects to maintain their "old" life
verse the life they would have during an event. For example. Why, backpack for 3 days to test your kit when you know your truck is still going to work. Anyone miss that point? Why try, you have the pack,what some list off the web said to have, it is a good pack(least you think) and short of
emp your truck is a 2010 , it will go for a few years as long as you have gas right? Oh you wont bug out. Why? I bet a tornado heading straight for you house will make your bug out,or a fire at 3am! Why get in shape, you have truck after all, why go off grid with solar or a grid tie . You cant have your 50 inch lcd TV on for 4 hours watching dual survival reruns. Why hunt, or harvest your own animals, and veggies, after all you can just buy freeze dried or keep it in your deep freezer ,you do have a genset after all and gas..but for how long.....

Preppers seem to over look those small details. They get so focused on the "small" picture of things vs the big picture. So how many of you are screaming " well i dont do that.." . Good. You may one day come out of your cocoon and be a butterfly and 5-10 years from now be typing like i am ,complaining how "PMI's"( preparedness minded individuals) are tearing apart the prepper movement all becuase after the 2012 election they got a bad name when a group of preppers got raided by the homeland secuirty forces. Mean while those dirty survivalist are still blogging about their solar systems and gardens over at PMIluvshtf.com or such...:p
prep,learn and grow. Dont let a title decide how or what you will prepare for, and dont let it ruin your outlook of others that are already "out of their cocoon" ;p


ok who wants to tell me the differences.....

[Edgemont]

Spot on! In my mind, we are all "preppers" (at different levels) who are people preparing for whatever happens in the future. But we will become survivalists when that event or thing happens. Maybe I'm totally wrong (quite likely), but that is really the difference in my mind. That said, I agree with what you are saying though.

As a newbie, I've noticed some of the traits and the way that the experienced "preppers" or "survivalists" talk. Generally I like it. I think that I can understand some of the frustration coming from someone who has been walking the walk for quite some time only to have Liberals or over zealous "preppers" come in and act like they know their $**t. Having said all of that, I hope the "old timers" don't get tired of giving a young newb, like myself, some advice and guidance. I greatly appreciate when people like Lowdown and many others take time to share info that is already common knowledge to those who have been doing it for a while.

Thanks for the challenging thoughts Protus.

[Lowdown3]

Spot on! In my mind, we are all "preppers" (at different levels) who are people preparing for whatever happens in the future. But we will become survivalists when that event or thing happens. Maybe I'm totally wrong (quite likely), but that is really the difference in my mind. That said, I agree with what you are saying though.

As a newbie, I've noticed some of the traits and the way that the experienced "preppers" or "survivalists" talk. Generally I like it. I think that I can understand some of the frustration coming from someone who has been walking the walk for quite some time only to have Liberals or over zealous "preppers" come in and act like they know their $**t. Having said all of that, I hope the "old timers" don't get tired of giving a young newb, like myself, some advice and guidance. I greatly appreciate when people like Lowdown and many others take time to share info that is already common knowledge to those who have been doing it for a while.

Thanks for the challenging thoughts Protus.

I've talked about this very subject with Protus on more than one ocassion. I'm sure he's not knocking new folks with this.

Everyone starts somewhere and even after years into this, their is ALWAYS something more to learn. Honestly, that's one of the reasons I love being a survivalist. I'm a knowledge nut :) I work on a new skill that relates to survivalism and it's like a whole new adventure for me. I'm guilt of then going and purchasing tons of books, videos, etc. on the new subject and dedicating myself to a good study of it. About half the time though you find that their are plenty of things the books don't tell you that you just have to experience and/or figure out on your own.

THAT more than anything else is the #1 reason to really do some of this stuff now. Better to have the time to readjust, seek out more help in the matter, time for more research, etc. than to learn via "on the job training."

Where possible, we want to avoid learning via OJT.

I think the biggest problem with the newer crowd is not so much the lack of knowledge as the lack of willingess to LEARN. That's a dangerous thing.

[Gordon]

Sort of like the question "is this a fiddle or a violin?" The answer is "depends on who is playing it."
You can be prepared, but can you survive? You got the stuff, but can you use it? If you have the deep pocketbook, you can buy a retreat bunker already stocked with food and weapons and stuff. But you must know how to prepare those big cans of food, how to break that weapon down and maintain it as well as use it. Some folks don't need as much preps to survive as others. That is the difference between mindsets of a prepper and a survivalist. As Bro. Lowdown says, the skills are the important part. The preps are just a means to a way. I don't like to keyhole anybody and say they are one or the other. They will know what they are when the long brown meets the whirling blades. I am planning on surviving and trying to learn something new everyday until then.

[protus]

Sort of like the question "is this a fiddle or a violin?" The answer is "depends on who is playing it."
.

very much so Gordon.Like tadpole or frog?

I have this up on another "large" forum. So far their replies are very much inline with what you guys have posted already.

My question is out of curosity more than anything. Why the split, why re-name it? why the constant stabbing when the chance is there?

Ld has heard the "not nice" protus go on about this as well. That "anger", for lack of better words is what has driven me to see what people actually think. To find out why ,besides the medias label caused them to want to be something else.


LD hit a big nail on the head in his last sentence. I really do feel and have witnessed(as he has) that many are so freaked that they just want to be told what to do, but with a cherry on top.


Im gonna cross post a few things others have said from my other thread to add some food for thought. These are not my qoutes.

I agree with the prepper as one who stocks supplies vs a survivalist who actively engages. I think that the survivalist moniker has a negative connotation that has stuck with it since the 70's and 80's where people picture a survivalist as some Una-bomber type in a cabin in Montana. I think the term prepper takes that edge off and makes a serious conversation about preparedness issues approachable to most people.

Prepper mind-set––- I will set aside a few things and hope nothing happens! If we have a Major (minor in a Survivalist mind set) problem, I can handle it...

Survivalist mind-set–self-sufficient––– I know something really bad is going to happen and I am willing to do anything to survive it! I will go camping, learn to track, shoot a lot and get as many guns and much ammo as possible! Wanting to survive in the future is a huge part of a survivalist life survivalist thinks, I will prepare as best I can for the worse and hope and pray that it is not that bad!! I will have a mind set of the worse EOTHAWKI situation. If it is not as bad as I thought it would be, then it will be easier than I thought to survive it!!!

PREPPER
A prepper is a survivor in the short term. They planned only for a single event, hurricane, earthquake, probably bought the ARK II kit or something like it. Maybe they have some extra food and batteries, but nothing really thought provoking. They think on only one level. They don't think ahead or plan for the worst case scenario. The last thing they want is their friends to think they are nuts, ie gun nut, survivalist nut etc. They may or may not have guns and ammo.

SURVIVALIST
By contrast to the prepper, lives the life. Prepares for everything, every eventuality. Nothing left to chance. Not a 3 day supply or a 2 week supply, but much much longer suuplies. Realizes the goverment can't really protect them, and does not want them to anyway. It is just not about hurricanes or earthquakes. It's about Food, water, gear, alternative power, guns, ammo, spare parts, tools and how to use them, and what's left after a system collapse. Its about skills, education, diversity. Lots of guns, lots of ammo, spare parts, accessories, night vision, uber-tacticool flashlights etc etc. It's about getting back to basics. If nothing happens, nothing is lost. Call it a mind set, The Grey tribe, Sheepdogs, whatever.

i can cross post the link to it if you all wish- im just not keen on posting other forums links-

[crossbow]

I'm a surviver because before my preps run out, i'll be raising the things to replace them with.Anyone that has raised a garden and canned for yrs is both a prepper and a survivor, they're prepping to survive the following yr and usually are prepped to survive a few yrs in case of a wet,dry,hot ect. growing season.

[Rmplstlskn]

Well, how to reply? hhmmmmmm. I agree and disagree...

I think it also falls into what one is "preparing" to survive. Because of my beliefs and convictions, I am PERSONALLY NOT preparing for an extinction event, or anything near to that, what is commonly called the "Mad Max" scenario, or more accurately, the "The Road" event. Personally, I don't think "Bug Out" survivalists will last long without dying, being killed, or eventually crossing into the dark side and becoming a looter/raider. Even old school trappers couldn't do it for long without resupply... So, YES, I do base my plans around BUG IN scenarios, until a very specific time comes about, then it will be BUG OUT time, which I believe will be the "SECOND EXODUS" and it will bring these people to Israel. Other than that, I don't see BUG OUT as a priority...

And fleeing a fire or storm is not BUGGING OUT, it is fleeing for a TEMPORARY time, yet the rest of the world is still fine and normal. Family and friends will be there to help out too. Yes, preps are needed for this, but it is NOT a long-term survival event... So I don't think using these events for justification of superiority of Bugging Out is valid...

But I am meeting friends for dinner and have to go. More later...

Rmpl

[1Admin]

Protus- no problem to post the link.

[protus]

And fleeing a fire or storm is not BUGGING OUT, it is fleeing for a TEMPORARY time, yet the rest of the world is still fine and normal. Family and friends will be there to help out too. Yes, preps are needed for this, but it is NOT a long-term survival event... So I don't think using these events for justification of superiority of Bugging Out is valid...

Rmpl

explain why? you are leaving your home because of a danger are you not. To me that is "bugging" out, leaving, getting out of dodge,haulin arse......etc etc etc.
Temp or long term what is the difference ,least that is the way i see it.Maybe that is one thing that separates the two as well. One seems to not dwell on that ONE scenario that would cause one to act that way, and the other See's it as a separate event per each scenario. Like sub classes of reasons for having to bug out. Kinda like a bug out flow chart LOL.
Maybe I'm not that analytical?

link to the other thread -

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=638445

[Klayton]

I love the post!!!

Let me say we need the "preppers" by them purchasing survivalist items they help lower the costs. I know, some of you will be saying no they raise the price, but if you think about it this way: 100,000(?) survivalists want X item. Well is it worth it for the company to produce it? If so, do they have to overprice it to compensate for such a low production run? Now we add 1,000,000 preppers wanting the same item. More companies will be willing to make X item, thus the price drops. =)

That being said, we ALL can learn from one another, whether it is a genius professor that is a prepper, or humble me: farmer/former meat inspection instructor/retired soldier/basic level EMT certified/hunter/falconer/mild gun nut/survivalist. I know I am not the genius professor, but I also know how (and have done) slaughter a head of cattle and break it down to retail cuts, wrap it up, and throw it in the fridge in under two hours. Something I think I am safe in saying, most genius professors wouldn't even have the stomach for doing let alone knowing where to make the cuts.

When I sign up for continuing education, it has to be something that will help me survive. I don't take classes on Art for a d@#n good reason!! BTW I still suck at making corn tortillas from scratch. LOL But can make a mean loaf of bread from scratch! =)

[rockriver]

great post and comments.
a couple of thoughts and memories come to mind.
--
every time someone becomes a prepper and start putting away groceries
that is one family that won't go begging/stealing in the second week of an event.
--
i was visiting with associates out of state. i began to realize their houses had
huge basements that were very hurricane, security proof. i began to discuss the "what ifs"
they quickly declared me a survivalist.
as they showed me their houses i noticed stacks of buckets in house 1.. 150 wheat buckets!
this was a large family with athletic children. tight family connections. they home schooled and made their own bread.
good morals/character/ethics.
they had crossed up with a certain religion in their area, so had built this house hidden from view.
i began to realize this family will get by in most situations very very well.
--
in house 2 the agriculture specialist finally acknowledged he'd told all family that his basement was the
best location should there be a nuclear event. they had practiced what they would do. (they had dug the basement
out of rock with explosives)
--
house 3 owner is a medical specialist living out of the country currently (not good should things fall apart!)
but his property occupies the opposite side of the valley from house 1 and 2 above.
large self sufficient family currently living in an unpleasant area of the world. surviving!

[rockriver]

continued.. the website or my computer got a case of the "shakes" and i couldn't continue?
--
bottom line.. the above 3 families are doing a lot just because this is the way they live.
they do have a weakness. but they are beginning to be aware of that BIG weakness and are
beginning to work on that area.
---
back to the 150 buckets of wheat... many friends of theirs had "bought up" wheat for y2k.
after y2k turned into a non event the friends wanted to empty their supply and my associate was glad to
be the recipient of the gift... of wheat and a few other items. they've been using this wheat for 9 years!
---
by the way, i should confess.
i'm just a beginning prepper wantabee. i guess you'd call that a p-1 (prepper category 1!)
bear with me as i study to become a p-2
--
but i'm learning from this discussion and it's motivating me to study for my p-2!
rr

[Reznorhead]

Well, I consider myself a 'doomer' so that puts me in whole nother catergory of 'nut'. :D
But to answer the query, my feeling is this might be less about semantics than we think. I see a big difference between the two. The prepper might know a lot about gardening/farming, raising livestock, and own lots of cool, old world hand tools. The survivalist on the other hand, knows skills like animal tracking, hunting wild game, and foraging for wild edibles. The prepper is planning for an extended grid down scenario, but would consider themselves lost in the woods. The survivalist is more confident in their skills in any situation. So while every survivalist is a prepper, not every prepper is a survivalist.

[crossbow]

Well, I consider myself a 'doomer' so that puts me in whole nother catergory of 'nut'. :D
But to answer the query, my feeling is this might be less about semantics than we think. I see a big difference between the two. The prepper might know a lot about gardening/farming, raising livestock, and own lots of cool, old world hand tools. The survivalist on the other hand, knows skills like animal tracking, hunting wild game, and foraging for wild edibles. The prepper is planning for an extended grid down scenario, but would consider themselves lost in the woods. The survivalist is more confident in their skills in any situation. So while every survivalist is a prepper, not every prepper is a survivalist.

there are many people like me living in the country that are preppers and survivalists who could live by just tracking,hunting,fishing ect. But when the SHsTF, anyone who thinks they're going to live off the land is dreaming unless they want to live on just earth worms because after the first month with no food on the store shelves there will be no game to be found, out of 300 million people, there are at least 100 million who will be shooting, trapping, catching everything that moves. I read on many sites and have to laugh when some city slicker talks about bugging out to the woods and living off the land, it tells me he has never hunted or fished. Even here during deer season, people don't do so good with just a few hunters out, when there are 50 thousand hunters out in every county, there will be nothing left in a month or less. Even the best skilled person will get nothing when there is nothing left. Better learn how to prep supplies to survive. I can remember when things like horseradish and asparagus were scarce before commercial growers started raising it. Just eating dandolines, milkweed and frog legs if in season will get old in a couple weeks.

[Rmplstlskn]

explain why? you are leaving your home because of a danger are you not. To me that is "bugging" out, leaving, getting out of dodge,haulin arse......

"Bug Out" is a vague term that means different things to different people, just as you mentioned with "survivalist" and "Prepper." To me, in context of what you first posted, I saw "bug out" as meaning a collapse of society event, as you ruled out lots of modern technologies (vehicles, etc...) as unreliable and not useful. In that theme, yes, a time and use tested BUG OUT plan and kit is the smart thing.

However, a bug out due to fire or fleeing some storm, etc..., just means that one needs to get out of the area, often by the quickest method, which would be by vehicle, not by foot. Many people have died trying to outrun a forest fire... And when one does "FLEE," one just needs to drive a town over, or even a state over, and one has hotels, credit cards and "normal society" at their disposal. A big difference from bugging out due to society collapse.

And my PACKING LIST would be very different from the two different events... Just as one would require STEALTH, and the other would do well with "SEE ME, HERE I AM" approach. One based on wilderness survival, the other based on urban survival...

I'm just saying that one BUG OUT PLAN with one GOAL does not fit the bill realistically. In actuality, one needs SEVERAL bug out lists/plans...

Rmpl