Where Are the Sheepdogs? Aurora, Colorado Shooting

[Patriot Prepper]

The shooting in Aurora, Colorado is extremely tragic. My prayers and heart goes out to the victims and their families.

To hopefully stop future mass shootings, I ask, where are the sheepdogs?

Sheepdogs are armed citizens willing to step up and help those in need. If sheepdogs were present, the incident in Colorado may have been minimized, and lives saved. When society learns that legislation limiting weapons or concealed carry is not the way to protect society. Criminals will always get guns.

The only way for Americans to be safe is for them to become responsible for their own self defense. Police cannot possibly be everywhere in order to prevent violent crime. Preventing a violent crime against your person is ultimately your responsibility. You need to become armed, obtain a concealed carry permit, learn to shoot, and become situationally aware.

We also need laws that help provide for self defense of one self as well as defending the innocent and weak. Defending those who are unable to defend themselves is what a sheepdog does. We need more sheepdogs. In every mass shooting in the last several years, a willing and armed sheepdog could have minimized the tragedy and held it in check.

Where are the sheepdogs?

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Where are the sheepdogs?

This is something I have been asking alll day and got an answer that rocked me. There were many folks who SHOULD have been armed present but instead decided to be sheeple for the evening and thats not to mention that it is a carry state. Look around, look at Mumbai, wake up!
Glove Box Riders, Range Commando Brags and Safe Queens do no one any good.

[qrprat77]

Guys,
you are missing the obvious.
Pat Prep, you and I are spoiled, we live in a state where we can carry in the theatre. Sounds like the Okies play by similar rules. The CO theatre was a gun free zone. You couldn't be a sheepdog and legally carry at that theatre.
This is bad news that will get worse as time gets on...

[Patriot Prepper]

Guys,
you are missing the obvious.
Pat Prep, you and I are spoiled, we live in a state where we can carry in the theatre. Sounds like the Okies play by similar rules. The CO theatre was a gun free zone. You couldn't be a sheepdog and legally carry at that theatre.
This is bad news that will get worse as time gets on...

Actually, I addressed the issue as to why there are not as many sheepdogs as one would like. It is because of rule and laws. In the theater they did post a don't carry warning. However, from what I understand in Colorado, that warning does not apply. In either event, I think concealed carry holders need to evaluate the need to carry in spite of insane posting.

Also note that a sheepdog does not have to be armed. Remember 911 flight 93? The passengers who attacked the terrorists were not armed, yet that did not stop them. They were sheepdogs.

If more people would have acted in a self defense posture of a sheepdog rather than a sheeple sheer numbers could have saved the day. The gunman did not have eyes in the back of his head.

I just saw a news video of a girl and her boyfriend who were in the theater and saw the gunman. They got on the ground and crawled away. That could be an option for some people. The motto of our marital arts school was "Never Surrender." For some people crawling is easier than fighting. For others, crawling is more difficult. I guess it is a matter of perspective. I cannot crawl.

[goatlady]

Though considering the average age of those attendees (late teens/early 20's) they are too young to even know about sheepdogs, much less be one! Sheepdogs probably do not attend midnight showings of a new Batman movie.

[SeldomSeenSlim]

Crowded room, full of seats bolted to the floor, people freaking out screaming, crying, running, falling, tripping over each other and a guy with a rifle in the only free moving space...

In my younger days running around the honky-tonks and bars, especially the gun and knife clubs along the border, I saw enough melees to know exactly were I'd be. Finding cover and keeping my *** out of the line of fire. One time I was standing at the bar chatting up a couple ladies and all hell broke loose behind me. I grabbed both of them by their shirts and we moved, and by moved I mean bull in a china shop over/through whatever was in my way, down the bar and out the door. People died in there. I wasn't one of them. Neither were the two women I grabbed. Maybe I saved them. Maybe they would have been just fine. Doesn't matter because I didn't grab them to save them I grabbed them because they were in my way and apparently my instincts don't involve running over women. Fight or flight and with nothing in front of me to hit, I moved. That wasn't the last time I was around that sort of thing, but it should have been. Young and dumb.

Since then I've gotten training and am more particular about the company I keep and the places I go. I don't think it changes things much outside of reducing the risk of being around such things. Pretty sure if I was in that theater I would have glued myself to the floor. With no place to go, the seats are the best cover. Popping up with a pistol against a guy with a rifle that's already firing likely wouldn't even enter my mind until the shooting stopped. Having been around bad gunfire, the kind where bullets fly towards you instead of away, I won't judge folks that hid or crawled away. That was their instinct and instinct is all that's going on. Which is why people train for situations like this. I've never been to a class that promotes heroism. Concealment, cover, engage the threat if/when possible, eliminate the threat in that order.

[xdpatriot]

I don't know what is going on in the world except that evil is everywhere. I often take my family to the movies. I have a concealed carry permit and likewise have a situational awareness that my wife often pokes fun at. About two years ago we were in a theater. We always get there early. (at 6'5" I like to get on the top row at the end to stretch my legs out). I watched people file in. I make it a habit to "size" people up when I'm in close proximity and carrying a weapon. Then it hit me, " what would I do if someone rounded the corner with a weapon and opened fire?". It was sobering and scary. I didn't enjoy much more of the show cause I had spooked myself. I was thinking of my three kids and wife the rest of the time. I mentioned it to my wife on the way home and she realized the potential danger as well. I don't know what the world is coming to. A dude in full ballistic protection shooting up a bunch of innocent people? I'm afraid for my kids because of the world they will grow up in. This tragedy has made me decide to double up on my range time and my prayer time. God bless all the families that were involved in this senseless act. I'll pray for their comfort. And as far as the gun control goes, the only thing I know that the victims had in common was none of them were armed. I hope this violent act doesn't get turned into a political agenda.

[Patriot Prepper]

Crowded room, full of seats bolted to the floor, people freaking out screaming, crying, running, falling, tripping over each other and a guy with a rifle in the only free moving space...

In my younger days running around the honky-tonks and bars, especially the gun and knife clubs along the border, I saw enough melees to know exactly were I'd be. Finding cover and keeping my *** out of the line of fire. One time I was standing at the bar chatting up a couple ladies and all hell broke loose behind me. I grabbed both of them by their shirts and we moved, and by moved I mean bull in a china shop over/through whatever was in my way, down the bar and out the door. People died in there. I wasn't one of them. Neither were the two women I grabbed. Maybe I saved them. Maybe they would have been just fine. Doesn't matter because I didn't grab them to save them I grabbed them because they were in my way and apparently my instincts don't involve running over women. Fight or flight and with nothing in front of me to hit, I moved. That wasn't the last time I was around that sort of thing, but it should have been. Young and dumb.

Since then I've gotten training and am more particular about the company I keep and the places I go. I don't think it changes things much outside of reducing the risk of being around such things. Pretty sure if I was in that theater I would have glued myself to the floor. With no place to go, the seats are the best cover. Popping up with a pistol against a guy with a rifle that's already firing likely wouldn't even enter my mind until the shooting stopped. Having been around bad gunfire, the kind where bullets fly towards you instead of away, I won't judge folks that hid or crawled away. That was their instinct and instinct is all that's going on. Which is why people train for situations like this. I've never been to a class that promotes heroism. Concealment, cover, engage the threat if/when possible, eliminate the threat in that order.

Going to the ground behind concealment, and shooting at the legs is a good strategy. Being a sheepdog is not necessarily heroism it is just some what of an impulse. It is simply doing what needs to be done. In the Gifford shooting, the shooter was tackled by average unarmed citizens. If people develop the mindset to defend themselves, there would be less victims and more victors. Thanks for the comment.

[Patriot Prepper]

I don't know what is going on in the world except that evil is everywhere. I often take my family to the movies. I have a concealed carry permit and likewise have a situational awareness that my wife often pokes fun at. About two years ago we were in a theater. We always get there early. (at 6'5" I like to get on the top row at the end to stretch my legs out). I watched people file in. I make it a habit to "size" people up when I'm in close proximity and carrying a weapon. Then it hit me, " what would I do if someone rounded the corner with a weapon and opened fire?". It was sobering and scary. I didn't enjoy much more of the show cause I had spooked myself. I was thinking of my three kids and wife the rest of the time. I mentioned it to my wife on the way home and she realized the potential danger as well. I don't know what the world is coming to. A dude in full ballistic protection shooting up a bunch of innocent people? I'm afraid for my kids because of the world they will grow up in. This tragedy has made me decide to double up on my range time and my prayer time. God bless all the families that were involved in this senseless act. I'll pray for their comfort. And as far as the gun control goes, the only thing I know that the victims had in common was none of them were armed. I hope this violent act doesn't get turned into a political agenda.

I believe the choice for someone with wife and children would be the most difficult. The first duty of course is to defend your loved ones. It is good to double up on the range time. And prayer, that is the greatest weapon of all. God bless you are yours.

[WILL]

The news said the suspect was covered with bullet-proof SWAT type gear to include shin, chest and groin protectors similar to the LA bank robbery suspects. It also sounded like he positioned himself against a wall in an elevated position and basically mowed down anyone moving in the isles. I talked to my wife about the situation. We both agreed that I probably would have gone after the attacker and been killed in the process. Unless you somehow ended up uninjured, right next to the shooter, your odds of sucessfully pressing an attack with your CCW seem slim. I would hope I would still try so that I may derail the attack.

[Patriot Prepper]

Though considering the average age of those attendees (late teens/early 20's) they are too young to even know about sheepdogs, much less be one! Sheepdogs probably do not attend midnight showings of a new Batman movie.

Good points. Young people cannot carry a handgun until age 21 in Florida. And sheepdogs probably don't go to a midnight showing - true. I think we need to relax gun laws and start allowing young people to carry, as well as train them to defend their lives. Sad, heart breaking situation.

[Patriot Prepper]

The news said the suspect was covered with bullet-proof SWAT type gear to include shin, chest and groin protectors similar to the LA bank robbery suspects. It also sounded like he positioned himself against a wall in an elevated position and basically mowed down anyone moving in the isles. I talked to my wife about the situation. We both agreed that I probably would have gone after the attacker and been killed in the process. Unless you somehow ended up uninjured, right next to the shooter, your odds of sucessfully pressing an attack with your CCW seem slim. I would hope I would still try so that I may derail the attack.

I respect the courage you have. The chances of success may have been slim. But then again, the Gifford shooter, was tackled by a couple of people. I try to think that it can be done, and that if enough people rushed him, he could have been stopped. He was also walking up and down the isles, where he could have been stopped. A girl and her boyfriend dropped to the ground and crawled out of the theatre. The LA bank robber wore extremely heavy protection that actually bogged them down - it was their downfall. SWAT type gear does not fully protect a person, it only protect vital organs. Body armor can relatively easily be defeated. If you had gone after the attacker, I would hope that you were not killed. We don't need to loose a prepper. But it is encouraging to hear that there are sheepdogs that would put their life on the line to help others. God bless you.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Crowded room, full of seats bolted to the floor, people freaking out screaming, crying, running, falling, tripping over each other and a guy with a rifle in the only free moving space...
In my younger days running around the honky-tonks and bars, especially the gun and knife clubs along the border, I saw enough melees to know exactly were I'd be. Finding cover and keeping my *** out of the line of fire. One time I was standing at the bar chatting up a couple ladies and all hell broke loose behind me. I grabbed both of them by their shirts and we moved, and by moved I mean bull in a china shop over/through whatever was in my way, down the bar and out the door. People died in there. I wasn't one of them. Neither were the two women I grabbed. Maybe I saved them. Maybe they would have been just fine. Doesn't matter because I didn't grab them to save them I grabbed them because they were in my way and apparently my instincts don't involve running over women. Fight or flight and with nothing in front of me to hit, I moved. That wasn't the last time I was around that sort of thing, but it should have been. Young and dumb.
Since then I've gotten training and am more particular about the company I keep and the places I go. I don't think it changes things much outside of reducing the risk of being around such things. Pretty sure if I was in that theater I would have glued myself to the floor. With no place to go, the seats are the best cover. Popping up with a pistol against a guy with a rifle that's already firing likely wouldn't even enter my mind until the shooting stopped. Having been around bad gunfire, the kind where bullets fly towards you instead of away, I won't judge folks that hid or crawled away. That was their instinct and instinct is all that's going on. Which is why people train for situations like this. I've never been to a class that promotes heroism. Concealment, cover, engage the threat if/when possible, eliminate the threat in that order.

Being a sheepdog and the great fallacy and lies of heroism. It doesnt include heroism into the thought process of threat elimination and in fact i've been called an idiot or worse and never been called a hero doing what needed done. You simply do what is needed much like you leaving with those you grabbed, that is sheepdogging. I have sat here and watched about 25 interviews with the victims and all stated the same thing. It didnt matter if you ran, laid still, got up, layed on the floor he shot everyone. With that in mind you have 2 options and neither are good but I will go out on my terms given the choice because I am supposed to if nothing else for those that are with me as I was trained that no greater love man can have than laying his life down as was done for me though i fully dont intend for that to happen and always plan on taking theirs instead. You fight with the tools you have and if you are popping up when he is shooting and fighting fair your tactics suck. OODA Go prone, lean out and shoot an ankle then when he falls go thru the collorbone to the lung material where the weak point of body armor is or use that to run away as fast as you can because now he cant chase you. There is nothing wrong with running either but it came to a point very quickly where in that limited space it wasnt an option anymore which means you have to take the fight to them. Yes outgunned and facing armor it would not be optimal but this guy didnt want a fight he wanted sheeple for slaughter.Hardly the first time i've been outmatched in weapons or strength in fact in the past few years i've become accustomed to it

Though considering the average age of those attendees (late teens/early 20's) they are too young to even know about sheepdogs, much less be one! Sheepdogs probably do not attend midnight showings of a new Batman movie.

Not even sure what to say about this except that the Military is full of this age sheepdogs and LEOs start at this age as sheepdogs and the scum who had become a wolf was in this age catagory so why if you can become a wolf can you not become a sheepdog? Yes sheepdogs still go to movies at midnight, it depends on shifts and things but even this old ogre doesnt turn into a pumpkin after midnight and ocassionally does things with the family and hey lets face it batman is cool ya know dudes got all the coolio gear and outfits and the chicks dig him.

Guys,you are missing the obvious. Pat Prep, you and I are spoiled, we live in a state where we can carry in the theatre. Sounds like the Okies play by similar rules. The CO theatre was a gun free zone. You couldn't be a sheepdog and legally carry at that theatre. This is bad news that will get worse as time gets on...

I'm not missing the obvious at all. There were those there who could have been legal in carrying and chose not to. This scumbag had a will to live as he threw himself down and gave up when confronted by Officers rather than fight. He wasnt looking for a fight, he wanted a cowardly slaughter. I'm not advocating breaking the law but judged by 12 or carried by 6, or just not be in liberal joints doesnt seem a hard choice

All in all it's done and cant be changed, I'm not judging those who ran, hid or anything like that, they did what they could and some made it. I'm simply trying to wrap my head around that many folks and not one to take the stand. I'm used to better odds i guess and maybe i am spoiled like qrprat77 said . Be careful out there, know your surroundings, know the exit, know the folks with you, train hard. I used this as a time to have discussions with my family and even the liberal news media discussed last night what to do so maybe just maybe someone will be saved.
When you pray, shoot one for them as many tough things are yet to be faced to include re-living this during the trial.

[goatlady]

With all due respect to our military, those late teeners/early 20's guys in the military are sheepdogs "In training", learning from the older, more experience "dogs" in charge and may never make the grade to graduate with the "dog" diploma They are more correctly sheep PUPS and as such just do not YET have the life experiences to make really GOOD, QUICK judgement calls under fire. Sheep dogs have BTDT and already know how they will react without thinking about it and they know that reaction will be appropriate to the situation. Becoming a wolf is easy as it requires no training, only reacting to current "feelings" with no thought for the consequences and no ethics or morals. Given our current society and how todays "youth" are NOT being raised properly, we will see more and more wolves, both the lone, outcast type and increasingly the wolf packs, i.e. gangs in the cities now, preying on the weak. Just my opinions and observations over the decades I have lived.

[Grand58742]

Going to the ground behind concealment, and shooting at the legs is a good strategy. Being a sheepdog is not necessarily heroism it is just some what of an impulse. It is simply doing what needs to be done. In the Gifford shooting, the shooter was tackled by average unarmed citizens. If people develop the mindset to defend themselves, there would be less victims and more victors. Thanks for the comment.

Not necessarily true...

Everyone who first encounters a hostile action directed towards them will have that momentary pause (freeze if you will) of "I cannot believe this is happening to me." It's not always that long, sometimes the OODA loop kicks in quicker in some rather than others, but there is always, always a momentary pause of disbelief. I remember the first time I got indirect fire over in Iraq. My first thought was "did that just happen?" as I stood there looking towards the impact. And eventually training kicked in and I got to a bunker. So everyone is different in how they will react to gunfire directed towards them or those in close proximity. Some will react quickly and attempt to neutralize the threat, some will get hit because they are over analyzing the situation, some will get lucky and have no plan, but get the gunman anyway, some have good training, a well executed plan and sound tactics and prevail...and some frankly won't react at all. But each and every one of them will have that momentary pause before reaction kicks in even if that reaction happens to be freezing in place.

While we can train for it, talk about it, Monday morning quarterback the decisions to carry or not to carry, attempt to bravely say "This is what I'd do!" and try to place ourselves into that situation, nobody will ever know how they will react until put in that situation. Get someone on the two way range and they react a lot differently than in training. Training helps control the fear one might have, helps make reaction quicker and provide additional options, but one can train all day long and still have no clue about how they will react when faced with a live gunman that is shooting at them because of that momentary pause.

And I hope none of us are ever put into that situation and have to learn this lesson the hard way.