So let's lay it out

[Irish-Tech]

STEP 1: My wife and I often debate this problem, and as a "care giver" she differs with me on this... But I have told her that except for emergencies like accidents and the such, if a person cannot "survive" without life-support gear, then it is their time to go. No one is promised eternal life in the flesh, nor are we promised such and such years... Crap happens to people. It is the way this creation works... Why? I don't know. If I were God, I'd be able to answer that. So I support letting people die if they wish it to be. I also think family members need to let other family members pass along when that time has come... People tell me that maybe that miracle from God is this other treatment or wonder drug, even if it be $$$$$$$ and they be -$-$-$ (negative cash flow). I say, the true miracle from God is if you unplug and they recover... harsh? maybe...

I can live with this. i do believe if the insurance company is willing to pay for it or if the person has the cash then let them. but those getting service on my dime shouldn't get to waste my money on a hopeless cause.

[Irish-Tech]

correction: my company pays 700 per paycheck so its actually 16800 they contribute. still under the cadillac plan tax increase. at least for now. :)

[Rmplstlskn]

Most people I call "friends," who are like-minded, know 0bama must go, and 0bama-care must get repealed, so the details of what will happen are moot to me, as it is a win or lose scenario. We win, it goes away; we lose, medical armeggedon. Societal collapse. WROL. Dogs and cats living together...

The REAL problem, as I see it, existed before 0bama, is deeply rooted, and systemic... The real problem is COST, DEMANDS and EXPECTATIONS mixed with GREED and "making ends meet."

COST: We all know how rediculous it is. Most say it is because those costs cover all those who get treated without insurance or payment. From what I hear from my wife (medical field), there a LOT of people getting very expensive treatments (cancer, etc...) and all that is related to that, where the hospital and doctors will never get paid a dime on from the patient. So who pays for this person? Everyone else...
Also, almost everyone in the medical field in a professional level makes GOOD money... Many in the 6 figures... They get paid every two weeks... Huge payroll. Who pays this? Everyone else... Many I have met or work with are GROSSLY OVERPAID. How do you correct that? They have the "paperwork"...

DEMAND: Even posts here show it. People demand to get the BEST care available, and expect insurance to cover it... The homeless guy living on the street demands the same advanced ($$$$$$) cancer treatment as Bill Gates would get, and gets it... Who pays for it? Everyone else...

EXPECTATIONS: Society now EXPECTS access to the best and latest technology ($$$$$$), and DEMANDS it be provided. The poor expect and demand the same treatment the rich would get... Is this how it works in real life, in the real world. Sadly, NO. The rich will always have more access to OPTIONS than the poor. Except for medical. (Fringe, often very successful treatments in Mexico and the Dominican excluded, that only those with CASH can get)

GREED: Or is just "generating revenue?" (See "Who pays for it?" comments above) I know for fact that people with zero chance of recovery, that are weeks away from death, not even mentally aware anymore, are getting expensive $$$$$$$$$$$$$ treatments to generate revenue for the doctors and the hospitals. This goes on every day, at every medical facility, everywhere... It is usually two reasons: 1. patients family demand the treatment as a "last hope" or 2. doctors/hospital can push the treatment legally to generate revenue. Often both are involved... "There is a possible treatment option for your Mom, we can try that and hope..." (And the billing begins...)

So what is the answer? What I think is controversial though, often called cruel or inhuman... But without major changes, it is all screwed...

STEP 1: My wife and I often debate this problem, and as a "care giver" she differs with me on this... But I have told her that except for emergencies like accidents and the such, if a person cannot "survive" without life-support gear, then it is their time to go. No one is promised eternal life in the flesh, nor are we promised such and such years... Crap happens to people. It is the way this creation works... Why? I don't know. If I were God, I'd be able to answer that. So I support letting people die if they wish it to be. I also think family members need to let other family members pass along when that time has come... People tell me that maybe that miracle from God is this other treatment or wonder drug, even if it be $$$$$$$ and they be -$-$-$ (negative cash flow). I say, the true miracle from God is if you unplug and they recover... harsh? maybe...

STEP 2: The uninsured or those without money to pay for treatment should be in a seperate GROUP. A group that gives basic emergency care and that's it... If one has a problem with that, then deep down they want universal coverage and national healthcare... Here's your sign, "Obama 2012"....

One way to help Step 2 is to allow people access to health equipment without getting tied into endless doctor visits, and pharmaceticals as well. If I have the cash, I should be able to buy a CPAP machine off the internet without a prescription, as an example. Which, BTW, is far, far cheaper than what is billed to your insurance company...

This is my view on all this, take it or leave it...

[Irish-Tech]

If were talking #'s ill join. I currently have awesome insurance with my company. I pay 300 a month or or 3600 a year. my company pays 700 a month or 8400 a year. this covers myself and my wife and kids. we just had a baby and it only cost me $25 out of pocket, and that was for the entire pregnancy, ultrasounds and all.

If my company chooses to drop private insurance here is what i can expect to pay. thanks BioG8r

$1000 per month or $12000 per year for the "bronze plan" for myself, wife and kids. already im a loss of 8400. isnt it convient this is what my company pays for my insurance every year? i just noticed that.

if i choose not to buy insurance that year i will pay the penalty. which for my income would be 1000 per person or max 3000 for the year. which is less then what im paying now and less then the "bronze plan" so why would i ever buy it? what i dont know about is will there be co-pays and how much will Rx cost. just in #s alone im not sure what to expect.

we can look at other countries and see the possible future, but we do not know for sure. i like my doctors and my dentist. i dont want to lose any of them.

Now let me add this in for fun. my dentist can expect to get paid %50 for medicaid patients compared to what he gets from private insurance. in other words if it costs $100 to get a filling medicare/medicaid will pay him $50. so as a result he no longer accepts medicaid or medicare. the amount of paperwork and wait time to get 50% of your pay isn't worth it to him. What will happen if everyone can only get medicare/medicaid(obamacare) insurance? He has already told me he will retire. who will replace him? what kind of service can we expect? will my medical doctore retire too? will my kids pediatrician retire? will the only person i ever see is a lady that transferred from the DMV and took an 100 hour course on medicine? there will be people that fill desks in Obamacare i guarantee it. we may not like them.

time to learn how to fix things at home and leave the hospitals for broken limbs and such.

[MustangGal]

not affecing me presently...but everything can and will change....i'm waiting for the rumored "tagging" clause to go into action in march 2012

March 2012?

[goatlady]

What will effect me personally and many, many folks is the ruling in this new medical care bill that states a doctor will no longer be able to write a prescription for a daily/maintanence medication for more than 3 refills. That means each person taking such a maintanence medication will now have to make a doctor's office visit with accompanying costs 3-4 times a year instead of once or twice a year.

[blankstare]

not affecing me presently...but everything can and will change....i'm waiting for the rumored "tagging" clause to go into action in march 2012

[Matt In Oklahoma]

We have been told to expect up to a 12% premium increase with a decrease (unknown factor at this point) in benefits

[610Alpha]

And the "fine" is $600. correct?

Still cheaper than paying a couple thousand a year for something you do not use.

The fine will be LESS THAN $1000 in 2014 and increases to $2400 in 2016 IIRC. So if you don't carry insurance you get TAXED. Since it is a TAX it can be overturned with a simple majority I do believe.

[BioG8r]

And the "fine" is $600. correct?

Because of phasing in and income levels.......
here is the best info on it I have found-

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-is-the-obamacare-penalty-tax-2012-7

[1Admin]

Will pay for insurance or the fine....

And the "fine" is $600. correct?

Still cheaper than paying a couple thousand a year for something you do not use.

[Not_Yet_Prepped]

We are looking at the small picture here, being the cost to your house hold, which I think most working class people will be paying more for insurance than they already are.

But, What about the big picture?

My wife works for a "Non Profit" rehab hosiptal. When the bill first past, the business office had to do a "study" to determine how this was going to affect them. Well with their current expenses and their current patient base, they realized that 6 years after the bill is in full affect they will be closing the doors. If a "Non Profit" will have to close the doors because the "allowed charges for services" is less than the services actually cost, what is a for profit hospital going to do?

THEY are going to reduce the level of service to the point where they can continue to make money. This does not sound very good to me.

Insurance or not and you have a life threating injury you walk into the ER and you get service (and ER care here in the US is the best in the world), that seems like a pretty good thing to have.

But Now it seems that soon there... will be more people in the ER, Fewer doctors and nurses there to do their thing, Fewer medical "Toys" and Fewer "New Toys". So your injury might not be seen right a way and your doctor will have fewer options to treat your injury.

So we are trading in the best "Trauma Medicine" in the world so that everyone can go to a doctor when they have a runny nose or a headache. Just does not sound like a good trade to me!

[SCinPNW]

My husband works for a fairly large company that has had top of the line health benefits, however, once Obamacare was passed the company immediately started their planning as to what they would do should the new healthcare laws be implemented. Last year we were informed that major changes would be implemented in 2013. What we do know is that our out of pocket expenses will be going up significantly and that less things will be covered. I am thinking our coverage will look more like an HMO/Grouphealth type of coverage. And no offense to anyone, but I am not a fan of Grouphealth. With a medically fragile/special needs kid I prefer to be able to pick the doctors we think will offer our son the best care, and with a Grouphealth type of plan I don't think that will be as much of an option--I could be wrong.

The other serious affect of this new law will be a shortage of doctors and medical professionals. My guess is that we will see a lot of doctors retiring early or changing careers, and alot of people considering the medical profession choosing something else.

My other big concern with the socialization of medicine is that we will see rationing of health care as is seen in other countries. The thought that my son or my mother, who is very ill, could be told that they are not eligible for needed medical care just infuriates me.

Keep praying!
SC

[SeldomSeenSlim]

No affect on me.

[BioG8r]

So someone with NO medical insurance, doesn't go to the doc for a sniffle, treats most non life threatening things at home, takes decent care of their health etc........

Will pay for insurance or the fine....