Terrorism raid in a small town in Florida

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

http://www.wesh.com/news/30265791/detail.html

The story says that the FBI raided the home and seized several items including computers. The neighbors believe the family belonged to a group called Sovereign Citizens. Apparently, according to WESH, is that this group protests paying taxes. The FBI lists this group as a top domestic terror threat.

Hmm?

[Rmplstlskn]

this group protests paying taxes. The FBI lists this group as a top domestic terror threat.

Indeed, tax protestors ARE a top domestic terror threat in this day and time... They haven't taken everything YET...

[Blowmax10]

Domestic terrorism—Americans attacking Americans because of U.S.-based extremist ideologies—comes in many forms in our post 9/11 world.

To help educate the public, we’ve previously outlined two separate domestic terror threats—eco-terrorists/animal rights extremists and lone offenders.

Today, we look at a third threat—the “sovereign citizen” extremist movement. Sovereign citizens are anti-government extremists who believe that even though they physically reside in this country, they are separate or “sovereign” from the United States. As a result, they believe they don’t have to answer to any government authority, including courts, taxing entities, motor vehicle departments, or law enforcement.

This causes all kinds of problems—and crimes. For example, many sovereign citizens don’t pay their taxes. They hold illegal courts that issue warrants for judges and police officers. They clog up the court system with frivolous lawsuits and liens against public officials to harass them. And they use fake money orders, personal checks, and the like at government agencies, banks, and businesses.

That’s just the beginning. Not every action taken in the name of the sovereign citizen ideology is a crime, but the list of illegal actions committed by these groups, cells, and individuals is extensive (and puts them squarely on our radar). In addition to the above, sovereign citizens:

Commit murder and physical assault;
Threaten judges, law enforcement professionals, and government personnel;
Impersonate police officers and diplomats;
Use fake currency, passports, license plates, and driver’s licenses; and
Engineer various white-collar scams, including mortgage fraud and so-called “redemption” schemes.

Sovereign citizens are often confused with extremists from the militia movement. But while sovereign citizens sometimes use or buy illegal weapons, guns are secondary to their anti-government, anti-tax beliefs. On the other hand, guns and paramilitary training are paramount to militia groups.

During the past year, we’ve had a number of investigative successes involving sovereign citizens. A few recent cases:

In Sacramento, two sovereign citizens were convicted of running a fraudulent insurance scheme. Operating outside state insurance regulatory guidelines, the men set up their own company and sold “lifetime memberships” to customers, promising to pay any accident claims against their “members.” The company collected millions of dollars, but paid out very few claims. More
In Kansas City, three sovereign citizens were convicted of taking part in a conspiracy using phony diplomatic credentials. They charged customers between $450 and $2,000 for a diplomatic identification card, which would bestow upon the holder “sovereign” status—meaning they would enjoy diplomatic immunity from paying taxes and from being stopped or arrested by law enforcement. More
In Las Vegas, four men affiliated with the sovereign citizen movement were arrested by the Nevada Joint Terrorism Task Force on federal money laundering, tax evasion, and weapons charges. The investigation involved an undercover operation, with two of the suspects allegedly laundering more than a million dollars from what they believed was a bank fraud scheme. More

You can help. First, “be crime smart”—don’t fall for the bogus claims and scams of sovereign citizens. And second, if you have information on any suspicious activities or crimes, please contact us.

Straight from the FBI's website

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Ok I'm gonna jump in the mix here because I have had too many dealings with these idiots.
There is alot more to Sovereign Groups than that. They file false leins against anyone who stands up to them, doesn't agree with them or they just dont plain like. They are heavy into weapondry and tactics but not for "protection" but agression and have killed Officers during routine traffic stops. They make their own license plates, law enforcement credintials, dont pay taxes but expect to use services like welfare, medical and the postal system for free. They make their own checks to pay for things or in attempts to use english common law to cause you to be indebted to them because you are holding their so called monies. They make their own drivers licenses and operate motor vehicles without any rules or laws because according to them those laws dont exist so when they run you down, speed enought to kill or maim innocents oh well because they dont have to obey "the man". They sue anyone who uses their name because it is "tradmarked" in the very court system they claim doesnt have authority over them.
The issues they cause even while incarcerated and their inability to not bang heads with the LEOs and steal everything from the general public makes them a top target.
So what should be done with these poor innocent misunderstood tax protesters?

[WiseOwl]

I know a girl that moved into one of those Mini McMansion neighborhoods out in the country. These houses were built during the Pre Bust in the Lull Boom. Well, the developers built about a dozen houses and lost funding. Only 2 people resided in this complete neighborhood.
First the locals stripped everything out of these houses that was of value.

When my friend moved in, people were getting 1/2 off deals on these houses and fixing them up. Little did she know that the 3 houses down the street were occupied by these idiots. She said it was like a movie when the whole Task Force and Local Police busted these idiots. Luckily it was peaceful. We have a serious problem with these idiots down here in GA.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/georgia-battling-sovereign-citizens-squatting-foreclosed-homes/story?id=11445382#.Txrn3IE8CSo

[Bull]

As bad as they sound, they seem like criminals more than terrorists. In accordance with the new law, I wonder if they are on their way to Gitmo to be held indefinitely, without trial. I'm all for busting these types of scumbags and throwing them in prison. But I'm a bit leery about how lax the authorities are regarding who is considered a terrorist. “Let me be very clear: We monitor the risks of violent extremism taking root here in the United States. We don’t have the luxury of focusing our efforts on one group; we must protect the country from terrorism whether foreign or homegrown, and regardless of the ideology that motivates its violence,” Ms. Napolitano said. According to our Homeland Security Secretary, and the Department of Homeland Security, you may be a terrorist if you, oppose abortion, illegal immigration, are a veteran returning from Iraq or Afghanistan, believe in gun rights, limited government, or support the U.S. Constitution too vigorously. I say nail these crepes, but don't do it under the guise of fighting terrorism, because that is a slippery slope.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

The "Terrorist" comes from their well established ability to use fear as a tactic which they do quite often by threatening, harrasing and utilizing the fake leans, scams and lawsuits to place fear in anyone who would stand in their way by causing them great financial hardships or ruin. They consisitently post items of threats towards Law Enforcement officers and have in fact carried several out resulting in death, injury and mental strain. They have also used these same violent tactics against the general public who don't agree with them and won't help them play their games.

Most, not all but most criminals simply commit the crime and go and even those that use fear tactics do it for a short term goal to gain what they want not to "change" anything. Thats the difference between terrorist and criminals. The wish to change life and they way it is lived thru violent means.
Oh and Ms. Napolitano is a stone cold idiot along with Eric Holder and many other Administrator types of political aspirations who have forgotten what it is to be on the line, if they ever really were but that is an issue that happens all the way down to small towns too, it just doesnt effect as many people.

[Grand58742]

But the bigger point here Matt. The Feds have labeled typical criminal activity (insurance fraud, tax evasion, driving without a driver's license, etc) as "domestic terrorism" because a small group have banded together to fight "the man." Maybe they don't want to pay taxes and have criminal activity. Maybe some believe in resorting to violence. Maybe some file lawsuits and issue warrants against sitting judges and elected officials...

So all these things add up to "domestic terrorism." That's all fine and dandy. But how long before it drifts even further into more peaceful activity being labeled as "domestic terrorism? I.E. The TEA (Taxed Enough Already) Party, Occupy Wall Street or other Occupy movements (I don't believe in their movement in principle, but they are guaranteed the right to protest against the .gov if they so desire), JFPO because they promote firearms ownership which in turn becomes "promotion of violent activities," the NRA and the GOA is the same...the Boy Scouts because they promote self reliance and Christian ideals?

Where does the .gov get the idea a person who refuses to pay taxes, drivers without a license or runs an insurance fraud scam suddenly became a domestic terrorist?

How is it normal people get labeled as "domestic terrorist groups" because of their beliefs? When or how long before the TEA Party is labeled as an extremist group and put on the domestic terrorist watch list because they don't like the tax policy of the United States?

A very slippery slope indeed.

[rice paddy daddy]

Yes, a very slippery slope. And with the legislation just signed, the National Defense Authorization Act, the government can now label anyone they desire as a terorist, confine them indefinately without trail, and without seing the charges against them.
There is a scary historical precedent here: Nazi Germany, 1933, Adolf Hitler in power, the Enabling Act was passed allowing the same exact type of government activity.
i am 63, and I remember when America was the land of liberty and freedom. It no longer is.

[Blowmax10]

I remember when America was the land of liberty and freedom. It no longer is.

My Friend that is a sad fact - We live in a police state

The only difference between now and March 5, 1770 is that now it is our own people oppressing us and not a foreign power

I think some of the younger people are waking up to this fact

[monkeybird]

Surely there is information we don't know, because if it was only protesting federal taxes, we need to bug out right now.

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

Thanks for the insight Matt. I agree though, there is a slippery slope as Grand mentioned.

Question to the LEO and lawyers in the crowd...if the investigation had been occurring for several months, why was there no arrests if they had done something wrong/laws broken?

[nakattack]

i agree with matt, these people do sound like a terrorist group. They use fear, intimidation, and voilence to try to push their agenda, basicly the definition of terrorists. As for this country not being free anymore i'm going to have to disagree. Sure there are some things that are messed up but the world we live in now is alot different then just a few decades ago. though I don't like the government being able to detain someone for as long as they like if they deem them a terrorist i think its a necissity now. extremist groups are excellent at using a countries laws to their own advantage. I've seen it in iraq and afghanistan and if they can do that there where the legal system is alot less rigid on rules and evidence then they can definetly do it in America.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Question to the LEO and lawyers in the crowd...if the investigation had been occurring for several months, why was there no arrests if they had done something wrong/laws broken?

Knowing and proving are not the same. DAs and AUSAs are hard to convince sometimes.
That slippery slope should be watched but more importantly acted on. Dont stay behind the veil, be vocal and active (legally) and dont give me any of that OPSEC guffa cause it sure gets broken quick when cameras show up as shown by season 2 http://channel.nationalgeographic.co...sday-preppers/
let the politicians know, cause they dont read S&P!

[WiseOwl]

Knowing and proving are not the same. DAs and AUSAs are hard to convince sometimes.
That slippery slope should be watched but more importantly acted on. Dont stay behind the veil, be vocal and active (legally) and dont give me any of that OPSEC guffa cause it sure gets broken quick when cameras show up as shown by season 2 http://channel.nationalgeographic.co...sday-preppers/
let the politicians know, cause they dont read S&P!

Wow Season2? These folks are nuts!!!!