Sustainable meat production when the merde hits the ventilator.. (pic heavy)

[610Alpha]

Here is a method I use for a chicken tractor that I think would work well for bunnies, too. The advantage of it is 1) zero carpentry, 2) very fast assembly, 3) very easy to move.

A 4X8 tractor has 32 sq. ft of protected space. A 10' diameter circle cage has 78.5 sq ft, so you can either populate it 2X or move it half as often. So here's how to make a really good circle cage:

Lay 40 feet of 4ft horse wire--that's the kind with the rectangular wire pattern--flat on the ground.

Using scrap tent poles from old dome tents, assemble two 41' "super" tent poles

Tying at about 2' intervals, attach the super poles to the top and bottom edges of the fence wire.

Attach 40' of 24" chicken wire to the lower portion of the fence wire.

Stand the assembly up on edge, and bend it into a 10' circle. The chicken wire should be on the outside, and the super poles should be on the inside of the fence edges.

Tie the fence ends together, and cut a door in the fence wall opposite the join. Do not cut the lowermost strand of fence wire.

Make a top for the cage out of old bed sheets. Get those from auctions, yard sales, thrift stores--anyplace cheap. You can hem them together, or pin them together at 2' intervals with a twist of scrap wire. (I find pinning easier.) Do not use a tarp: the top must not collect rainwater. It's just for shade and to keep hawks out. And flying chickens in.

The top will only be good for a year or two, but it's so cheap and easy to make that it doesn't really matter.

Let some sheet hang down on one side to make a better late afternoon sun shade.

Being spring-loaded and circular, the wire cylinder will be really sturdy.

Attach it to the ground with about a dozen 12" pegs--j-pins made from 1/4" wire work well. I cut mine from abandoned shopping carts. That way they are already bent, chrome plated, and free.

To move the pen, just pull the pegs. Then two people can pick it up one-handed and just walk away with it. VERY easily.

I tie the pegs to the pen frame with macrame cord so all you have to do is pull the cords to pull out the pegs, and then the pegs will travel with the pen--all ready to just restart and stomp iback into the ground.

With this pen, the lower super tent pole is optional. You can also put in a horse wire floor to keep bunnies from digging out and it will still be very easy to move.

Some pics would be great!!

[Greybeard]

Another way to help offset some of the rabbit feed bill is to raise worms under the hutches to sell to fishermen, maybe even bait shops. I had heard of this but never deliberately tried it Then one time cleaning under some hutches I hadn't cleaned under in too long I found shovels full of worms. Had plenty for me and friends from then on. Have read about people running small businesses like this.

[MustangGal]

Another way to help offset some of the rabbit feed bill is to raise worms under the hutches to sell to fishermen, maybe even bait shops. I had heard of this but never deliberately tried it Then one time cleaning under some hutches I hadn't cleaned under in too long I found shovels full of worms. Had plenty for me and friends from then on. Have read about people running small businesses like this.

The worm castings from the rabbit poo are a super fertilizer too! We haven't made it to that step, but we are planning to. Right now our rabbit poo, hay, goat poo, and chicken litter all goes to composting.

[VINCENT]

have you considered raising fish as well? there is a fish farm close to me, they are offering for sale a few tanks made for raising fish in. is anyone in florida is looking for something like this, pm me and i will get you the details. i have considered doing the rabbits, or goats on my acrage, but dispite my desire to do fish, it wont happen. nobody but me in my family will eat fish.

[Boyd]

have you considered raising fish as well? there is a fish farm close to me, they are offering for sale a few tanks made for raising fish in. is anyone in florida is looking for something like this, pm me and i will get you the details. i have considered doing the rabbits, or goats on my acrage, but dispite my desire to do fish, it wont happen. nobody but me in my family will eat fish.

I've been thinking about IBC totes, but more of a basement type of setup. On one of the links ya'll sent me used them for lots and lots of purposes, fish farming, and a biodigester. That's what I am most interested in, but don't see the 2nd part of that video yet.

[DIM TIM]

Byod,

Thanks for sharing... I have noticed acros the WEB many suggested rabbits for meat, thanks for sharing part of your setup... I like the rabbit as being multi-purpos (food, furtilizer, and skin/fur).

On other meat FISH is really really good for proteins and vital fats. During my research I found these guys (I have not had time to do read much or watch many of their videos) and they MAY share an idea of taking a fish "pool" and hydroponic farming together. It appears that only a small power supply is needed for the water pumps (maybe even possible for off the grid).

http://theurbanfarmingguys.com/about

Yeah, I just recently came across their site and added to my favorites for reference. I had thought about the idea of small scale fish farming using stock tanks back in the late 70's. After seeing the addition of a hydroponic system added to it I was amazed. Just sorry that I had not thought about something like that myself back then. It is a sustainable system, and with the right size and components in the system, it will sustain a family and many others with it's bounty for years. By enclosing the system in a green house structure in colder climates, the possibilities stagger the imagination.

I'm to the age right now, where things have eluded me. I am just going to assemble a number of BINDERS-O-KNOWLEDGE to pass along to my son, and in the meantime, do some small scale experiments with him as long as I'm around. I figure that way, he will gain the knowledge needed to do it well, and feed his own family some day with his work. Thought about the rabbit idea, but not enough fat to really make it worth it as far as I can see.

Chickens is another story. If I can figure a way around the deal with our local city ordinance on the keeping of livestock in town, I'll raise a small flock of hens for the eggs and meat. If not, the wife and I will likely be trying to see about finding a country place soon, and possibly moving there for good. Things are kind of tough right now in that area, but we are determined to try and do what we can to make it happen. Hopefully sooner than later.

[Boyd]

rabbits give me 3 benifits.. a lean meat, Skins n for tanning, and they are organic composters who's manure can be used as a great fertilizer... But I want to go beyond just rabbits.. I think it was Louis Lamore who had a book that started "I was hoping to find a fat bear, but found a hurt Indian instead.."

Yup.. That's why I am thinking pot bellied pigs, and some goats. Lord knows I could eat rabbit meat and loose some weight for a while, but when the snow flies, the grid is down and the wood supplies are keeping us warm, a nice fat ham hock n black bean stew sounds good!

[nice_cpl_n_bama]

Aquaponics works very well. look into "Reliance Community Farms" in Texas, and the work of Dr. Paul Range, a.k.a. "Paul the Skeptic." His stuff is well researched and well thought out. He has designs for wind powered pumps made out of PVC pipe, marbles, and old ceiling fan blades. If you are going to try aquaponics, look into duckweed. Raising duckweed will drasticly reduce your fish food needs. You can raise duckweed in salvaged bathtubs, using rabbit poop tea to fertilize the duckweed. Duckweed is even human edible, although I'd have to be pretty danged hungry to try it :D
I hope that helps,
Jeff

[pixel]

For those of you that have animals ( I have goats, rabbits, and chickens) What are you doing to store feed if a shtf scenario happens and you can't go to the feed store?????
Most feed doesn't last long due to moths or bugs already being in the bags straight from the store so long term storage doesn't sound feasible to me??? Was wondering what others are doing?

[Matt In Oklahoma]

For those of you that have animals ( I have goats, rabbits, and chickens) What are you doing to store feed if a shtf scenario happens and you can't go to the feed store?????
Most feed doesn't last long due to moths or bugs already being in the bags straight from the store so long term storage doesn't sound feasible to me??? Was wondering what others are doing?

Some of that was covered in the Dec18th podcast. I'm currently not raising anything but the most common issues are overgrazing with all animals. Where i live it is "the home of the 5acre dream" and everyone has way too many animals for the amount of property they have. Folks that have birds will have nothing but dirt and hooves where graze that can never get over 1/4 inch even in the spring are clues. My Grandfather was still of the mind that feeding should only be done in the hardest of times. He didnt make the profits of everyone but he also wasnt forced to feed or sell or butcher until he was ready.

[610Alpha]

I am so behind on podcasts...personally i would look into alternative feeding options whether that is me growing hay and what not to stocking up for the periods in which i am unable to grow the food. experiment now with alternative foods for your animals and start weening them off as much as possible.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

I am so behind on podcasts...personally i would look into alternative feeding options whether that is me growing hay and what not to stocking up for the periods in which i am unable to grow the food. experiment now with alternative foods for your animals and start weening them off as much as possible.

You either have to grow your own like corn, milo, hay etc or make sure that your land can support that particular creature. Too many folks want animals based on opinions or wants rather than sustainabilty based on where they are. Even in cattle I see this alot. "Well I want to raise this kind" rather than what survives here the best and is hardy for this enviroment

[goatlady]

If you "store" straight grains, they will store a looong time, like 9 months or more. It's the mixes like layer mash, chick grower, etc. that draw bugs because of the heavy oil contents in the feed, primarily the soy content (which BTW is from GM soy beans). Plain corn, oats, barley store just fine and dandy either in the original bags and/or in metal garbage cans or 5 gal. food grade plastic drums. It should not be difficult to store enough ration to get your animals through until you can plant and harvest your own grains which will then sustain the animals for then on. Just like you store enough food to get your own family through until your garden starts producing. Goats only need a handful of grain when they are being milked and if you free range the chickens they only need a handfull of grain daily to supplement their diet. Store alfalfa hay instead of pellets for the rabbits for longer storage times while you check around where you live to find a local alfalfa supplier or alternative food for the bunnies. I don't have bunnies strictly because there is no way I can sustain them in my area on what I can produce for the goats and chickens and sheep. Love rabbit meat, but too that's the breaks. Can't do it all and maybe eventually I can trade goat milk or eggs/meat for rabbit down the road.

[Klayton]

goatlady, how much acreage are you using for goats, sheep, and chicken?
I ask because on the web there are so many people saying all you need is 1-3 acres of land for self-reliance, but that seems like a very small size piece of land for livestock and vegetable garden and fruit orchard...

???

[PerryJeff]

Boyd that cleared area sure looks great and some nice pasture ground for your rabbits as well as atracting the deer in. As a lot of the statements here on how do I grew enough on my plot to sustain my critters. Just like your home defense planning we all have our area of control (the ground we own) we also have our area of influence. In defence the distance I can put a bullet on target in plantings I have road ditchs 25 ft wide or so. I have seeded my neighbors road ditches to wild flowers and yellow clover. 2 years ago I bought 50 lb bag of yellow clover. It flowers mid summer on tell freeze up, which was inportant to me as I want my bees working my fruit trees in the spring not going after this flower a mile away. Anyway this last year I took 6 lbs of wildflower seed and went up and down the ditches. My neighbors don't care what is growing in the ditch as long as its not a weed that they perseve as cutting into the yields in there fields. Now some of this might be somewhat invasive so I am not telling them I seeded it. On to this spring I plan on spraying round up to kill off the grass 6 ft wide or so by 100 ft long (garden patches) some I will seed to sorgum, some to oats some to wheat. Since I can't till up the ground I will need to sew it 3-4 times thicker. Hopefully I get a nice little stand of crop. Enough grass will probably come up as well that I won't get much yield. But 2-3 bushels would be nice and hopefully get some re seeding. My goal is after 3 years I have my little sorgum patch going. I can then take gunny sack and just cut the whole seed head off and take home to feed. If grain price is cheap let it reseed and buy regular from farmer. If expensive or unavailable. I hopefully will have some ready small fields of grain.