Where is it all going? Consensus?

[Bill Spies]

Did you guys read my original statement? I don't don't think you caught it. You all threw out alot of information...THAT EXPLAINS THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM! As far as these protesters, I think they're addressing the issue in the wrong way! How do you do that the right way? I don't have that answer. But are you saying that they are wrong in what they claim?

HELLO?

You gotta be educated before you do any educating.

[Fido]

Ok, here ya go. Heres a list of demands from an OWS website:

Repeal the Taft-Hartley Act. Unionize ALL workers immediately.

Raise the minimum wage immediately to $18/hr. Create a maximum wage of $90/hr to eliminate inequality.

Institute a 6 hour workday, and 6 weeks of paid vacation.

Institute a moratorium on all foreclosures and layoffs immediately.

Repeal racist and xenophobic English-only laws.

Open the borders to all immigrants, legal or illegal. Offer immediate, unconditional amnesty, to all undocumented residents of the US.

Create a single-payer, universal health care system.

Pass stricter campaign finance reform laws. Ban all private donations. All campaigns will receive equal funding, provided by the taxpayers.

Institute a negative income tax, and tax the very rich at rates up to 90%.

Pass far stricter environmental protection and animal rights laws.

Allow workers to elect their supervisors.

Lower the retirement age to 55. Increase Social Security benefits.

Create a 5% annual wealth tax for the very rich.

Ban the private ownership of land.

Make homeschooling illegal. Religious fanatics use it to feed their children propaganda.

Reduce the age of majority to 16.

Abolish the death penalty and life in prison. We call for the immediate release of all death row inmates from death row and transferred to regular prisons.

Release all political prisoners immediately.

Immediate withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Abolish the debt limit.

Ban private gun ownership.

Strengthen the separation of church and state.

Immediate debt forgiveness for all.

End the 'War on Drugs'.

Sounds like communism to me. Or maybe I'm WRONG

http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-ows-demands/

[Bill Spies]

Repeal the Taft-Hartley Act. Unionize ALL workers immediately. Very Dangerous

Raise the minimum wage immediately to $18/hr. Create a maximum wage of $90/hr to eliminate inequality.Impossible

Institute a 6 hour workday, and 6 weeks of paid vacation.That's be nice, but unrealistic

Institute a moratorium on all foreclosures and layoffs immediately.uh...hello?

Repeal racist and xenophobic English-only laws.worthless

Open the borders to all immigrants, legal or illegal. Offer immediate, unconditional amnesty, to all undocumented residents of the US.Not on your life!

Create a single-payer, universal health care system.Hmmm...Could be a good idea

Pass stricter campaign finance reform laws. Ban all private donations. All campaigns will receive equal funding, provided by the taxpayers.Maybe

Institute a negative income tax, and tax the very rich at rates up to 90%.LOL Yeah, like that'll happen. Are you high?

Pass far stricter environmental protection and animal rights laws.Yeah that's OK

Allow workers to elect their supervisors.Ok

Lower the retirement age to 55. Increase Social Security benefits.Now where's that gonna come from?

Create a 5% annual wealth tax for the very rich.Good luck with that

Ban the private ownership of land.No

Make homeschooling illegal. Religious fanatics use it to feed their children propaganda.There's educational issues on that, but not open to a ban

Reduce the age of majority to 16.why?

Abolish the death penalty and life in prison. We call for the immediate release of all death row inmates from death row and transferred to regular prisons.death penalty is not really a punishment. Keep where they are and take away their TV's

Release all political prisoners immediately.that could be dangerous

Immediate withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan.yeah

Abolish the debt limit.and do what? devalue our currency instead?

Ban private gun ownership.NEGATIVE!!!

Strengthen the separation of church and state.Yes

Immediate debt forgiveness for all.Nice idea, but impractical

End the 'War on Drugs'.Yes, that's a waste of money

Thank you for proving my point. THEY"RE GOING ABOUT IT THE WRONG WAY!

[WiseOwl]

Fido, if that is true, I wish very bad things to happen to people that support it. Bulldozers, cold weather, the plague, the wrath of common sense...something. This has gotten waaaaay outta hand.

[Fido]

Did you guys read my original statement? I don't don't think you caught it. You all threw out alot of information...THAT EXPLAINS THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM! As far as these protesters, I think they're addressing the issue in the wrong way! How do you do that the right way? I don't have that answer. But are you saying that they are wrong in what they claim?

HELLO?

You gotta be educated before you do any educating.

You are asking me if I am saying they are wrong in what they claim and I showed you how wrong they are. Using a legitimate grievance (i.e. corporate welfare) to push an illegitimate agenda is wrong wrong wrong.

[Klayton]

Well seeing how I disagree with most of Bill Spies answers to the above I gues I will have to agree to disagree...

Long Live the Republic!

[Bill Spies]

Well, ya know what? You can disagree with me all you want. Apparently, you don't get it and that's ok. I'm sure the Fox network will clear things up for you (that's sarcasm by the way). But I think what we all agree upon is that there IS a problem and it NEEDS to be addressed. Right?

[1Admin]

What EXACTLY is the "problem" as you see it Bill? In detail please.

[barfife]

One of out fore fathers said it best.

A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
Thomas Jefferson


We need less government and its regulations and more leadership and common sense.

[Bill Spies]

What EXACTLY is the "problem" as you see it Bill? In detail please.

What can I explain that hasn't been already explained by everyone else? I'm agreeing (in most ways) with what everyone else says. I DID say that the 'Occupiers' are going about it in the wrong way. There is an issue with what has been coined as the 1%. Someone here (I forget who) claims that this is made up. It's not. It's real. These people made a killing (financially) at the expense of the common person...with mortgages, credit cards, etc. They gave this stuff out freely to people who couldn't repay it! Who they are exactly (the 1%), I'm not sure but I dont think you'll find them on Wall Street. To make a long story short, it's THAT which crippled the economy. These 1%ers are laughing their way to the bank while thousands (if not millions. I dont know the exact number) are loosing their jobs and homes. A protest MUST take place. Now, like I said (and again), the occupiers are going about it in the wrong manner. Most of their demands are insane! But something has to be said. Something must be done. Do you people really not agree with me or did I scare you with the misconception that I was eluding to Socialism? (which I wasn't). There were a lot of words like Socialism and Communism that were floating around this thread. Those are words that rattle a lot of people and I really dont think they understand the true meaning. And forgive me if I may have confused anyone, but that's not what I was getting at. But, I also said that Karl Marx was right. He predicted something like this would happen. Capitalism is failing because it can allow for too much corruption. Revolution is in the air, boys and girls. And if you don't see that, then shame on you. You are the sheep that they are herding!

And to barfife - With your comment "A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government." Thomas Jefferson was reffering to a 'Laissez Faire' system of government (and economics. Keep in mind, the two are intertwined). That's been proven to be impossible to achieve. It sounds good, but it's fantasy.

I've said enough. Either you agree or you don't. If you don't, then obviously you can't and you'll never be convinced.

[610Alpha]

@Bill - Did you read the NY Times article that I posted the link to?

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.


In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates -- anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional loans.

hmm I wonder who those stock holders were? just maybe they were blue & white collar workers for some of those evil corporations that had invested money either thru a pension plan and/or 401(k)/ROTH IRA....I think we need to clean up around our own door step before telling someone else theirs is dirty. Like my DI said when you're pointing your finger at someone else you got 3 pointing back at you!!

To your question "What will do the trick?" -- Well for starter we need to take control of our investments instead of blindly following the crowd. Like my mentor Dave Ramsey teaches, if you can't explain how that investment works to a 12 year old then you shouldn't put money into it. My company finally got rid of the pension plan WOOT!!! Why do I rejoice, the pension plan is the property of the company, I realize there is pension insurance, one word ENRON. Now they will be giving us a % of our salary into our 401K. I could choose the unknown 401(K) plans they offer or I can choose from over 8000 mutual funds via a self directed brokerage account hmm. Me taking responsibility for my investment which means I pay attention to the companies that I put my money in and if they start acting screwy I pull my money out. I won't invest in subprime loans that have been securitized.

First it starts with Term Limits - Career Politician are 2 words that don't go together.

Reform the tax code - I am in the 25% bracket yet we paid 6% of our Adjusted Earnings, after all those tax breaks. I am no where near a 1%'er in annual income but I can deduct my interest off my home and my student loans and the kids and my charitable contributions and etc. etc. Wait I said reform the tax code, K.I.S.S Keep It Simple Stupid. Flat tax - everyone pays cause thats FAIR and thats what the OWS people want is FAIR. I can't stand FAIR, I want a fighting chance and I will out work those that are smarter than me so :p.

Quit their crying and get to work. Dan Miller has a great FREE pdf "48 Inexpensive Business Ideas" everything from washing windows to Amish Taxi Driver.

I never believed that i deserved a 6 figure income when I got out of school nor did I expect one, I just wanted a chance to show them how hard I worked.

I am stopping here cause this is getting long winded and I doubt you will read it cause you haven't responded to my earlier questions.

[Bill Spies]

Baaaah! Baaaah!

[610Alpha]

What can I explain that hasn't been already explained by everyone else? I'm agreeing (in most ways) with what everyone else says. I DID say that the 'Occupiers' are going about it in the wrong way. There is an issue with what has been coined as the 1%. Someone here (I forget who) claims that this is made up. It's not. It's real. These people made a killing (financially) at the expense of the common person...with mortgages, credit cards, etc. They gave this stuff out freely to people who couldn't repay it!

Did the 1% hold a gun to their head? PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY. They had a choice and they chose wrong. I think you should listen to Dave Ramsey on this topic.

The 1%'ers were defined as people with an annual income of $350,000.00...that could be a neurosurgeon or a small business owner.

[610Alpha]

@Bill - Its not that we don't think a lot needs to be changed we just don't want what the OWS people want which is Socialism/Communism/Anarchy.

[Bill Spies]

@Bill - Its not that we don't think a lot needs to be changed we just don't want what the OWS people want which is Socialism/Communism/Anarchy.

YES!!!! Now we're getting somewhere! We may not be sitting in the same pew, but we're in the same church! Again, I'm not saying that their demands are correct. They're rather...insulting actually. But their motive is on the money (no pun intended)