Dodge 2500 with 12 valve cummins

[stonewater]

wanted to hit the board with this:

I have been told the 12 valve cummins which is in the older Doge Rams is a non electronic (no computers) motor. everything including injectors are all mechanically controlled. also that they are 1 million mile motors, and that you should get the 5 speed as the auto trannies are 4 speed and only last 200K max.

I have also been told the weak link in those is the fuel pump and the injector pump, but that these motors will even run on vegetable oil if it is preheated.

anyone care to chime in?

Stonewater

[tech]

Been a long week, but there was also a pin in the timing cover area that would work it's way out and make a mess of things...don't recall what years were involved, but a simple Google search should tell you. Lift pump failures were a major cause of injection pump failure...no fuel = no lubrication. Agree with the 5 spd manual over the auto...early front ends tended to wear out ball joints rather quickly. Also dependent on year, the voltage regulator was in the computer. Aftermarket work-arounds are available.

Is this working up to an engine swap or staying in the original shell?

[LizardKing]

I've been looking at doing the same setup, just looking for the right truck to put it in. The trans is the NV4500 5 speed (expensive), but I'm also thinking about the Allison automatic as an option. The problem with the auto is that it would require some sort of computer and that just complicates things.

[tech]

Go with an Allison out of an M923 5 ton with a lock-up converter...no computers on those, and may bolt up to the 5.9 Cummins without much effort. They are already behind a Cummins 240 or 250 (difference is the fan clutch) so likely a simple task.

[BioG8r]

The 6bt and my years of experience with it.

I currently have a '92 Dodge 1 ton with a Cummins(6bt 5.9litre) and an auto tranny (pretty much the old dodge 727 w OD). The trans is a pain but the Cummins makes up for it in so many ways.

I have owned - '94, '96, '97 (lemon lawed for brake issues) replaced with a '98 (971/2) All Duallies with Manual Trans.

Balljoints ARE a major problem, about 2 years of steady use is all they can handle.

Tech made a reference to the timing pin, What usually happens is when timing the engine or replacing the Injection Pump people FORGET to retract the pin before turning over the engine. The pin breaks and can wreak HAVOC on the motor. I have not heard of one coming dislodged on its own.

I run BioDiesel and Black Diesel in it regularly. Have not tried Waste Veg Oil because of gelling/gumming though I am sure it would burn it with no other issues, If I'm away from home, straight road diesel, "Honey Badger Don't Care"!!

The Bosch Rotary pump is less than my favorite. Keeping up with the lift pump IS a priority. I have just over 300,000 miles on this truck and wouldn't hesitate to take it across country.

Bosch Rotary pumps - Square body style '93 and back - works pretty good, not as adjustable to the common man.
Inline P pumps - 94 to 98 - this is the pump most desired - can tweek to your hearts desire - power, economy, Kids make'm smoke!
12 valve engines 89 t0 97.5 - just AVOID the block stamped with a 53 on it, they have been associated with poor quality castings - cracks in the block!!!
The 24 valves 98 and up are great motors but are Electronic Fuel Injection.
The Getrag 5 spd trans has an issue of dropping fifth gear. My 98 had dropped it three times in the five years I owned it the nut comes loose and the gear simply falls off. Dealer charges about 400 to put it back on. Most of the cost is the synthetic oil.
The New Venture (NV)4500 5 spd is the trans of choice. Dodge has used them as an option in '92 but uses them as the standard now.
The new engines (6.7 litre) have not proven to be BULLETPROOF like the 5.9.
Busses and trucks used the Allison Auto Trans. There are Bellhousings available and they can be gotten both in computer and non computer controlled. THIS IS THE AUTO TRANS most desired for quality and longevity behind a Cummins. Some have had issues, but that is the way of all things!

I would love to have the time and money to trick my old square body dodge. I just don't see it as the highest priority!

My brother makes 500hp and 720ft lbs of torque with a 12 valve-P Pump and a Stock Head Gasket!! I don't waste my money like that - He also rebuilds the top ends regularly! He has gotten two tickets for fogging the road with smoke. Whateverrr!

Those of you who are into "wrenching" the 6bt (6cyl) has a Bad Arse little brother called the 4bt (4cyl) many mechanics have put these in small trucks, jeeps and other Utility Vehcles and have been amazed at the performance and economy! They are Heavy for a four, but make power from daylight to dark and run forever.

The 4 and 6 bt's have been used in heavy equipment and generators for years, they are solid, economical, consistant and powerful. Cummins did it right!!!

[stonewater]

Been a long week, but there was also a pin in the timing cover area that would work it's way out and make a mess of things...don't recall what years were involved, but a simple Google search should tell you. Lift pump failures were a major cause of injection pump failure...no fuel = no lubrication. Agree with the 5 spd manual over the auto...early front ends tended to wear out ball joints rather quickly. Also dependent on year, the voltage regulator was in the computer. Aftermarket work-arounds are available.

Is this working up to an engine swap or staying in the original shell?

looking at buying one outright....stonewater

[stonewater]

thanks everyone, all the issues mentioned are things I am equipped to deal with. I can see the timing pin problem being horrific!! the ball joint problem seems a small price to pay for the overall truck value. right now they are running between 7 and 9 k where I live for the 98 to 02 2500 dodges.

stonewater

[boltgun308]

I've got a 2001 Dodge 2500 4x4 with 182k on the clock. Mine has the factory in tank electric lift pump. I also have a 99 F350 4x4 with the 7.3 powerstoke and 189K on the odometer. The cummins is a far better diesel system and much easier to maintain and the cost to do so is by far cheaper. My Dodge is stock but my Ford has a bigger turbo, big injectors, yada, yada, yada. The trans in both trucks is an automatic. The aftermarket makes all kinds of improvements for the transmissions for these trucks and I would not hesitate to get an auto.

The Ford has had the heads off for diesel fuel getting into the cooling system. The injector cups were leaking and had to be replaced. I replaced the injectors and high pressure oil pump at the same time. The Ford also has glow plugs, the Dodge does not.

I definitely would not buy the 6.0, 6.4, and 6.7 ford diesel motors. Junk in my opinion. The last year of the 7.3 was 2003. I'm not a big fan of the Duramax either. The Cummins is definetly the way to go for diesel trucks.

[stonewater]

thanks boltgun that is another feather in the cap for dodge. I have heard poor things about duramax. the guys down at my local napa sell a lot of parts to most of the independent shops around here, I have been shopping there for almost 20 years, they consistently reccomend cummins and steer away from the duramax, they sell a lot of ford parts. so you want to know about reliability ask the parts guys!!

Stonewater

[tech]

Speaking of the Duramax (bit of a drift here) following the Japan tsunami the injectors were backordered for over 3 months - they are an Isuzu engine, after all.

[boltgun308]

Sun Coast performance makes a full manual valve body for the Dodge transmission. Completely does away with all electronics in the transmission. Also found a conversion for the 24 valve that converts it to an older manual injector pump. You could take the improved performance of the 24 valve and make it fully manual.