NYPD Adopting Point Shooting

[Guest]

From my friend and ICCF Staff member Matthew Temkin...

My friend who is a NYPD Lieutenant ( he is the black gent who was the other model in my DVD) was up at Rodman's neck for some in service training.


He happily informed me that "Target Focused" shooting is now being taught.
Along with the convulsive grip and burst shooting from two hand low ready.
The instructors credit our video ( The LT. and 7677) with winning them over.
I am very glad that I gave a free copy to the N.Y.P.D. instructor who I met last Fall at a IALEFI R.T.C.


Their only complaint is that many of the the methods that we teach--rapid multi burst shooting, charging into the enemy, contact shots, head shots, etc, etc--- is too violent for police work.


As if there is a nice way to gun a bad guy down.
But hey, as with a bus load of lawyers crashing off a cliff, this is a good start.
Applegate would be very happy about this--as am I.

Folks here's Matt's video...well worth it, I have it, I know... http://www.paladin-press.com/product...-to-the-Ground


Here's a clip, a very useful one, from said video...How to Use Vertical Tracking in a Gunfight: Shoot Him to the Ground

And I quote: "Most gunfights involving an armed civilian occur within the range of zero to three feet. At that close-quarter distance, you're not going to have the room or opportunity to push the gun out, get on the sights, and fire a perfect double-tap into your assailant's "X-ring." So how do you end the threat, even at contact distance, without shooting yourself or someone you didn't mean to? In this video, firearms expert Matthew Temkin teaches you how to get man-stopping accuracy at that critical close range using total target focus, also known as point shooting.


Taught point shooting by Col. Rex Applegate himself, Temkin shows you how to transform your body's natural startle reflex when confronted with an immediate lethal threat into a method of close-quarter gunfighting suitable for military, police, or civilian application. Temkin emphasizes point shooting's practicality by teaching the fundamentals: one- and two-handed shooting, burst shooting, turns and pivots, the combat drawstroke, proper targeting, and much more. This program won't supplant aimed fire from behind cover, but is an invaluable part of any combat shooter's arsenal."

[Matt In Oklahoma]

My thoughts:
Be very very careful shooting that close in full extension.
Down is down.
With all things there must be balance between speed and accuracy. I have a hard time believing that my other arm will just dangle uselessly in close contact like that and that will somehow make me faster/better. The first shot or two sure but by then my second hand is either up to the gun for better control or defending against whatever or finding my cover or pushing others away or ..........
also you are responsible for every round, if one misses as the subject turns or falls you are responsible so how many can you get on target before that happens? Stitching in an upward motion works as you are going with the flow of point shooting at close range but it was trained for war where the term "acceptable casualties" works not civilian ccw use. Use fast falling targets or turning targets and see about how many you can accurately hit before the target falls. It wont be 6-8 shots beofre you miss in most cases.
Keep all of these things in kind before adopting a particular form over another, not to say this is wrong or right but think your own way thru this stuff based on your skills. Case in point: Didnt NYPD just shoot a bunch of bystanders so the fix is to adopt a non-aiming solution?!? Just Saying

[kilogulf59]

Didnt NYPD just shoot a bunch of bystanders so the fix is to adopt a non-aiming solution?!? Just Saying

Didn't that sights only training work out well for them?

You aren't going to be standing there at full extension, your going out and fire, tag you're it...

You post's tone indicates that you are prejudice against this from the get go so I'm uncertain if further explanation(s) will be productive or simply turn into a shoving match...of which I am not here to partake in.

All I can tell you is, and this goes for everyone, from contact to long range, combat shooting is a continuum, a progression, based upon YOUR comfort/ability zones...remember, while very useful, a hammer isn't the tool for every job.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Didn't that sights only training work out well for them? They didnt use them, didnt use much of anything based on evidence, statements and video. Training failure all the way around.

You aren't going to be standing there at full extension, your going out and fire, tag you're it...I've done alot of this and it has a place but not for everyone, i pointed out some of the weakness' in it. It has strengths too. Full extension even while shooting the target CQC isnt going to be a sure thing especially with handgun calibers, you can still lose it. There are a few things I see that maybe differ such as just a one handed hold, not pushing all the way thru the target and beyond to remove yourself from the hostiles zero zone and starting with stomach shots? Maybe I need to watch the whole video

You post's tone indicates that you are prejudice against this from the get go so I'm uncertain if further explanation(s) will be productive or simply turn into a shoving match...of which I am not here to partake in. Discussion, this is a discussion forum. I'm saying that folks need to actually try it on more than static targets and see if it actually works. And yes I'm somewhat prejudiced against teaching this to many of the target audience here based on senarios where misses are ok and the form shown mmm. Point shooting has a place as stated but it has weakness too.Like I said a balance in all things such as aimed fire and point shooting to speed and accuracy and so forth

All I can tell you is, and this goes for everyone, from contact to long range, combat shooting is a continuum, a progression, based upon YOUR comfort/ability zones...remember, while very useful, a hammer isn't the tool for every job.

Agreed
Said my 2 cents on it, based on experience and training. There may be a bunch that disagree with me, no bigge, i'm sure not always right. Light me up, I'd like to hear from others too.

[kilogulf59]

In all honesty Matt I don

[1Admin]

I prefer point shooting, I'm much quicker point shooting. I'm about up to 40 yards consistently with rifle. More comfortable with floating the rifle than the classic underarm assault position and more of the "locked in" type approaches.

KG- I've had the discussion about links with both you and your buddy here that is constantly promoting your site. Am I not clear? WTF?

[kilogulf59]

You may have mentioned to someone else but not me...and thanks for being so polite and professional about it. Had you mentioned this to me you would have been told that I promote Survival and Preparedness Forum very much and, since the two forums are not in direct competition, I don't see what the issue is.

However, since you have taken the mature approach and posted this snide comment. "ADMIN- WAS I NOT CRYSTAL CLEAR SEVERAL TIMES NOW ABOUT YOUR LINKS? WTF OVER?" in lieu of my signature line, I see no reason to remain a member here and, obviously, no longer recommend this forum either.

Had you handled this differently I would have as well...close my membership.

[1Admin]

Yep, kinda figured you go arsehole about this. But we HAVE discussed this previously as you are well aware. Nice try, you made your little case. And no you never offered a link exchange or anything. When you first backed off of posting your link every single flipping post then your buddy picked up your slack. What am I flipping stupid? I guess the rules apply to everyone except you?

"Closing" your "membership" per your request.

You may have mentioned to someone else but not me...

https://www.survivalandpreparednessforum.com/showthread.php?4526-Greetings-from-Behind-The-Cheddar-Curtain

Your very first flipping post here and I had to delete all your links and obvious plugs for yourself. Sure glad I didn't "mention" that to you....

Selfish jerks are always the worst ones for stepping in the s$@% they dropped.... Irony in motion.

[JUSTIFIED]

Yep, kinda figured you go arsehole about this. But we HAVE discussed this previously as you are well aware. Nice try, you made your little case. And no you never offered a link exchange or anything. When you first backed off of posting your link every single flipping post then your buddy picked up your slack. What am I flipping stupid? I guess the rules apply to everyone except you?

"Closing" your "membership" per your request.

Not sure if you're referring to me Admin. but to clarify, I'm not Kilo's "buddy" and if it is me you're referring to I do NOT post Kilo's links regularly and you have NOT had any conversations with me about this. If I'm not the "buddy" you're referring to then my apologies and disregard this post.

My apologies to all involved. I'm only an acquaintance with Kilo from Facebook and I recommended this site to him because of his interests in self defense, etc...and I thought he'd enjoy this site. I don't know why he went off like he did. Matt, you were more than gracious to him, which he didn't deserve. I've discontinued any communication with him and his Facebook site.

[1Admin]

Roger that. No worries J.

He was given a lot of slack from his first post pushing his site and himself. For the slack I gave him, I got spit in the face in return. He's ghost, rarely say this online but eff him. Nothing pisses me off more than when you give someone some slack and they repay you with spit in your face. Too many people mistake kindness for weakness.

[610Alpha]

Roger that. No worries J.

He was given a lot of slack from his first post pushing his site and himself. For the slack I gave him, I got spit in the face in return. He's ghost, rarely say this online but eff him. Nothing pisses me off more than when you give someone some slack and they repay you with spit in your face. Too many people mistake kindness for weakness.

Just another example of how you are fair to people and give them the benefit of the doubt. In the words of Max Velocity "You can't fix stupid" quoting his book Contact.