Weekend Training

[JUSTIFIED]

As one of the members at this exercise I'll go first and hopefully others will jump in and give their thoughts or comments.

I'll be the first to admit I was the slowest of the group to act.
In this simulation we were a dinner party at a restraunt. The scenario started with the dining members seated and one was a hostess. Roleplay started and we were ordering drinks when the hostess left. We were all talking and joking (which would be realistic of a real life setting)
I had my head turned to my right and was talking and the shooter came to the table from my left. I did not see them approach the table. They just appeared.
I turned to see a person standing there say something and then shoot one of our party. There was a moment of hesitation as one of our party went down and then someone had the inclination to shoot back taking the aggressor down. As others were moving about I slowly got up and approached our down member..poor Sharpshooter was laying on the ground with a severe gun shot wound..
I gave absolutely no thought to the shooter, if they were still active, or they had possession of their gun and could shoot again.
I stood over the team as they administered first aid and slowly thought of what I could be doing. In my mind what I thought was just seconds was closer to two minutes. This is where time is critical and you may only have a few minutes to save someone..

As I drove home I went over the training exercise and two thoughts kept coming to my mind.

1) What could I have done faster or more efficiently? Because someone was taking care of first aid doesn't mean there aren't other important things to cover.

2) What if I wasn't in a group of LMI's and I was the only one to act? How would I do all that, or have the mind to take charge and direct others into action?

Another thing that I remembered. Quite a few years ago I worked in sales and our sales staff would get together and roleplay with one of us pretending to be a customer. They would come in and ask hard questions or behave rudely and we would practice our sales "skills" to be ready when this happened. It helped our sales team giving them a perspective of different situations that can occur. Now, praciticing sales skills is no where as critical or tense as roleplaying a life and death situation but I hope you get my meaning.

Patriot Lady and I sure missed out on a good meal and good training! Good and helpful comments by all! I can see why the scenerios need to be different every time so that one doesn't fall into a routine way of responding that doesn't take into account variables. Thanks for sharing this! Even though we couldn't be there in person it helps give us something to think about...how we would respond, etc...

[WiseOwl]

Bravo Okies!

I think this is so awesome I went back and read the entire thread again. Admin1 is right, yall are the envy of the board. And yall get to eat so good!!!!

I hope to meet up with the Southerners at the campout and become a part of some of these exercises in the future. Looking forward to forming some new friendships. I just need some LMI to hook up with every 3-6 weeks (or more) to start training. I like how you guys just dont do tacticool camo'd out grocery shopping, you went to the cannery and the candle making. Those are things that even my wife would have an interest in.

Bravo Okies Bravo!

Now, everyone grow hulkhogan mustaches like MIO....lol

[Matt In Oklahoma]

And yall get to eat so good!!!!
Its about more than eating MREs for a weekend and thinking your tougher than woodpecker lips. I got a lecture from a guy on MREs which was funny as all get out because i've lived for months on them and KNOW the true effects whereas this guy never served and was quoting some internet bravado.We have to find ways NOW to make decent meals to keep everyone going because burnout will set in and a decent meal is worth it's weight in gold in not only nutrition but morale.
I hope to meet up with the Southerners at the campout and become a part of some of these exercises in the future. Looking forward to forming some new friendships. I just need some LMI to hook up with every 3-6 weeks (or more) to start training. I wish everyone here can find this but dont limit yourself to titles, types or anything because you dont want everyone to be just alike otherwise you become onesided and limit yourself.
I like how you guys just dont do tacticool camo'd out grocery shopping, you went to the cannery and the candle making. Those are things that even my wife would have an interest in.Thats what its about. As Will was trying to say in his other post tacticool is good but everyday stuff is really important. We need tacticool but we also get hung in it, well because its fun. We are not some radical anti.gov hateraide drinkers lookin to rise up, we are just some folks looking to make it thru rough times.The wife, well everyone, has their parts in this and crosstraining is important. While i may not be the head candle maker for the group i can if needed and while my wife may not be the head overwatch shooter for the group she can if needed and so on. Lets face the truth I most likely will use those candles long during a winter storm or tornado caused power outage before they use my weapon retention class and harvested honey will be consumed long before tracers rounds are needed. That doesnt mean we dont need all training but strive for balance in all things.
We have some real talented and smart folks who can do many things. I cant nail 2 boards together straight but these guys build chicken coops that are better than the house I live in.

Now, everyone grow hulkhogan mustaches like MIO....lol

You must be old enough to shave first youngun LOL and even then only certain uglies like me can truely rock the stash

[Grand58742]

You must be old enough to shave first youngun LOL and even then only certain uglies like me can truely rock the stash

I tend to resemble that remark...

[1Admin]

Hey now! Don't pick on Wise- his Mom specifically said not to pick on him or she won't bring him to the GA campout!

;)

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Hey now! Don't pick on Wise- his Mom specifically said not to pick on him or she won't bring him to the GA campout!

;)

ROTFL LOL whewman note pinned to the shirt and all

[Grand58742]

While not our "official" weekend training. Several of the forum members shot the IPSC this weekend. One thing that stuck out in my mind was the fact a couple of the rounds shot by a forum member failed to fire. Not from a bad pistol, just some hard primers. However, being trained, tap, rack and fire came into play quickly and he moved on. Same round took five hits before finally going off (three from the Glock and two from a Sig) but only in a controlled environment after the comp had ended. So as a gentle reminder when it counts, don't stop and look at your pistol like I saw one person do (not an OWA member) when it fails to fire. Go to Immediate Action and get the round out and continue to fire. I'm not a huge proponent of the old .mil theory of second strike on a bad round. If that puppy doesn't fire the first time, get rid of it and press on. Tap the mag, rack the slide and continue to engage. Both Matt and Sharpshooter did good in this regard. I forgot the "tap" once and remedied it on the second go around, costing me about two seconds. And two seconds in a gun fight is a lifetime.

Get a feel for your weapon of choice. On the above situation, I felt the magazine wasn't fully seated on the second time (I could feel the slight gap between the mag and mag well) and slammed it home, racked and continued to fire. My mistake for not feeling it the first time. Lesson reminded to always tap before racking. And to know when something doesn't feel right on your sidearm.

Some ammo just has hard primers and won't go off like it's supposed to. I think it was Winchester White Box ammo (Matt can confirm) which should have done fine. But sometimes you get a bad one that likes to sit there and flip you off. Lesson learned? Even commercial loaded ammo isn't without problems from time to time. But this does bring me to the next item...

Most of the OWA know I hate reloads. At least those not done by myself or by someone I know and trust. I saw a person firing reloads that had been "downloaded" for the range. And frankly, failed to extract/eject almost every round since it didn't have enough power to cycle the slide. So, gentle reminder, unless you know the person doing the reloading (and sadly this person did) or it isn't coming from a reputable company like Black Hills, it is automatically suspect and shouldn't be used for personal protection in my opinion. Range use might be okay, but betting your life on? Some things shouldn't be skimped out on and self defense ammo is one off them.

No sense in betting your life to Billy Bob's Live Bait Shop and Basement Reloading Company that you see from time to time at gun shows. Commercial loaded ammo is (for the most part and yesterday was a blip) by far superior to unknown reloads. With reloads you don't know if they are too hot or not hot enough to reliable cycle the actions, it's once fired brass that has gone through a M249 (they eat the brass up) or has been fired fifty times already. And again, the time you take to evaluate, remove said spent round with a pocket knife (as Matt helped the lad do) rechamber and continue to fire...yeah, you're dead. Or the round was loaded to over max pressure specs and your weapon blows up in your hands and you are reduced to yelling bad words at both your weapon and the bad guys. So moral of the story? Unless you load it yourself and know for a fact it's reliable after testing it in controlled conditions or buy it from a reliable company that is known for quality (again, like Black Hills), don't bet your life or the lives of those you love on it.

Also, eye protection. Another shooter caught a splatter from a round in the forehead from a round hitting a steel target. Dazed, but continued to fire and did very well. Had the round been slightly lower, it could have meant an eye, but they were wearing their eye-pro. When ranges say use eye protection, use the darn things. You can put a band aid on a cut, ice pack on a bump, but replacing an eye? Again, the member trooped on through the remainder of the firing course and nothing more serious at the time than a slight ding. But something that could have been far more serious.

TulAmmo sucks when attempting to drop steel targets. Lesson learned there sometimes double taps or Mozambique drills are required on steel targets. TulAmmo isn't loaded as hot as others in my opinion as this wasn't the first time I had issues with the steel not wanting to drop. (And yes Matt, I actually did have to hit it three times before it fell)

Oh, and don't shoot the hostages...twice. But at least I shot them in the butt as opposed to through the head. :p

While not official weekend training, several lessons to be learned yesterday.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

While not our "official" weekend training. Several of the forum members shot the IPSC this weekend. One thing that stuck out in my mind was the fact a couple of the rounds shot by a forum member failed to fire. Not from a bad pistol, just some hard primers. However, being trained, tap, rack and fire came into play quickly and he moved on. Same round took five hits before finally going off (three from the Glock and two from a Sig) but only in a controlled environment after the comp had ended. So as a gentle reminder when it counts, don't stop and look at your pistol like I saw one person do (not an OWA member) when it fails to fire. Go to Immediate Action and get the round out and continue to fire.
CLEAR IT AND QUICK LIKE!

I'm not a huge proponent of the old .mil theory of second strike on a bad round. If that puppy doesn't fire the first time, get rid of it and press on. Tap the mag, rack the slide and continue to engage. Both Matt and Sharpshooter did good in this regard. I forgot the "tap" once and remedied it on the second go around, costing me about two seconds. And two seconds in a gun fight is a lifetime.

Get a feel for your weapon of choice. On the above situation, I felt the magazine wasn't fully seated on the second time (I could feel the slight gap between the mag and mag well) and slammed it home, racked and continued to fire. My mistake for not feeling it the first time. Lesson reminded to always tap before racking. And to know when something doesn't feel right on your sidearm.

Some ammo just has hard primers and won't go off like it's supposed to. I think it was Winchester White Box ammo (Matt can confirm) which should have done fine. But sometimes you get a bad one that likes to sit there and flip you off. Lesson learned? Even commercial loaded ammo isn't without problems from time to time. But this does bring me to the next item... Winchester White Box had 1 bad then bang then next one bad, made me go home and double check my pistol even after shooting 2 more setups

Most of the OWA know I hate reloads. At least those not done by myself or by someone I know and trust. I saw a person firing reloads that had been "downloaded" for the range. And frankly, failed to extract/eject almost every round since it didn't have enough power to cycle the slide. I hate downloaders that try to make it shoot softer so they think they are better, I only reload full house roundsSo, gentle reminder, unless you know the person doing the reloading (and sadly this person did) or it isn't coming from a reputable company like Black Hills, it is automatically suspect and shouldn't be used for personal protection in my opinion. Range use might be okay, but betting your life on? Some things shouldn't be skimped out on and self defense ammo is one off them.

No sense in betting your life to Billy Bob's Live Bait Shop and Basement Reloading Company that you see from time to time at gun shows. Commercial loaded ammo is (for the most part and yesterday was a blip) by far superior to unknown reloads. With reloads you don't know if they are too hot or not hot enough to reliable cycle the actions, it's once fired brass that has gone through a M249 (they eat the brass up) or has been fired fifty times already. And again, the time you take to evaluate, remove said spent round with a pocket knife (as Matt helped the lad do) rechamber and continue to fire...yeah, you're dead. Or the round was loaded to over max pressure specs and your weapon blows up in your hands and you are reduced to yelling bad words at both your weapon and the bad guys. I always try and pick powders that cant be double loaded because of the amount it takes to fill the cases So moral of the story? Unless you load it yourself and know for a fact it's reliable after testing it in controlled conditions or buy it from a reliable company that is known for quality (again, like Black Hills), don't bet your life or the lives of those you love on it. At least once a year the family rotates our carry ammo and we shoot our high dollar super rounds at these matches which makes sure we dont forget how that quality stuff kicks and lets us know if we need to rotate more due to sweat, weather etc.

Also, eye protection. Another shooter caught a splatter from a round in the forehead from a round hitting a steel target. Dazed, but continued to fire and did very well. cause shes tougher than a dragons tongue! Had the round been slightly lower, it could have meant an eye, but they were wearing their eye-pro. When ranges say use eye protection, use the darn things. You can put a band aid on a cut, ice pack on a bump, but replacing an eye? Again, the member trooped on through the remainder of the firing course and nothing more serious at the time than a slight ding. But something that could have been far more serious. Ditto, cant say enough about eye protection when using firearms, these things happen and as I told her "will happen again", we shoot hard targets and sometimes they shoot back!

TulAmmo sucks when attempting to drop steel targets. Lesson learned there sometimes double taps or Mozambique drills are required on steel targets. TulAmmo isn't loaded as hot as others in my opinion as this wasn't the first time I had issues with the steel not wanting to drop. (And yes Matt, I actually did have to hit it three times before it fell) cause he shot it in its steel foot LOL, naw sometimes this happens too, DOWN IS DOWN

Oh, and don't shoot the hostages...twice. But at least I shot them in the butt as opposed to through the head. :p and dont shoot thru them either to get to the A zone of the other badguys, stupid collaborator, he had stockholm sydrome and was charging me i swear :p

While not official weekend training, several lessons to be learned yesterday.

We dont game these shoots, we try and shoot it the correct way. Scores are unimportant and doing it the right way under stress it important. The leesosn learned are many and highly disputed usually by those that havent done. No matter how you did you walk away better at the end of the day IF you take those lessons and fix them

[Grand58742]

And I didn't even mention the Sig had to pick up the slack where the Glock failed. I wouldn't say anything like that in public. We'll keep that between ourselves, 'kay?

:D

[Matt In Oklahoma]

And I didn't even mention the Sig had to pick up the slack where the Glock failed. I wouldn't say anything like that in public. We'll keep that between ourselves, 'kay?

:D

you mean where the Glock had to soften the hard primer up enough so the sig could make it go off? :)
by all means keep that between just us lol

[JUSTIFIED]

I think you guys are brothers the way you pick on each other...chuckle....

[Grand58742]

I got the brains and the looks. He got the brawn. :D

[Matt In Oklahoma]

I got the brains and the looks. He got the brawn. :D

I can actually live with that but your still ugly LOL

[WiseOwl]

Hey now! Don't pick on Wise- his Mom specifically said not to pick on him or she won't bring him to the GA campout!

;)

I have a My Name is Pin and she may pack my lunch for me!

As long as you guys sign my permission slip, I should be good to go!

[Grand58742]

And once again the OWA crew (minus Matt and Sharpshooter who were out shooting antlers off some deer. Imagine that, some poor deer out there with only one antler walking around, getting made fun of by all the other deer, getting a complex and having to seek counseling. Oh the horror, the horror) got together this weekend for some training. Topics that were covered were predominately camouflage and the difference in what to wear and when to wear it. Unfortunately, time caught up with me and I wasn't fully prepared, but overall, I believe the point was made fairly well.

Discussed was the three types of areas and "camouflage" so to speak to be used in each. Mainly we focused on urban, suburban and rural camouflages, when to wear each and how not to draw attention to yourself in each. Lucky enough we live in Oklahoma so it's not typically a big deal seeing folks stroll down the road in BDU or Mossy Oak camo, or carrying a military style pack so during a bug out situation seeing folks in those clothes won't draw much attention. But even still, for those looking for the gray man/woman approach wearing said camo can draw attention from time to time.

So the discussion moved on to what can one wear that looks normal, but can blend in to all three environments. As well as a potential tactical problem for a member wanting to hide his pack better without spray painting it all over the place. Since I hadn't tested burlap in this environment yet, I took the opportunity to show the group (and myself) how burlap can potentially be used as a good base earth tone camouflage. Massive fail, but more later.

We discussed how to dress appropriately in earth based tones that one can and will find in everyday life. Olives, browns, tans even black can be used as "gray person camo" in selected environment and can transition easy between the three. While black isn't the best idea, it actually doesn't do bad as one might think. And we tested it out in my back 40 rural environment where the foliage is typical of Oklahoma. Here's the items we were going to test:



Left to right: my tanish/greenish brown rain jacket, Wrangler "burnt olive" work shirt, standard M81 woodland camo, Multicam, military OD, khaki (Matt's favorite) and basic black. We also had burlap included which we added in some additional colors to break up the overall single color. It was a quick job since we were pressed for time, but one should go deeper on the colors and more of them:



And our rural environment:



Which is actually has all the patterns above at around fifty yards behind light foliage. You can just pick out a couple of them, but we'll show close ups in the next post.