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Shooting Rant

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  • Shooting Rant

    I have often been asked about the way I shoot. It seems that when a steel plate is falling and I dump several more rounds into it on the way down or if I shoot a can ,and then shoot it again while it's still moving, it ruffles more than a few feathers and causes commentaries. I was not trained as a competitive shooter nor a bullseye shooter though both have merits. I was trained since the age of around 7 to shoot as a killer. I know what many are thinking as you cringe because I used that word however hear me out please.
    I started shooting as a hunter. Have you ever heard a hunter say hey lets go knock one down and see if it can live? No. The quickest death blow that can be dealt is what is called for from the responsible party. Anyone who has ever shot skeet or clays can tell you even they don't follow the laws of physics it seems at times and a second shot may be required before the bird leaves the adjusted shooting zones to break it cleanly.
    Having made up my mind to shoot (Kill) wether on an animal, target or person I will place enough rounds to ensure the job is done no matter the caliber. I say it over and over "Down is Down" anything else is unacceptable. In the wake of the recent and tragic events in Arizona several mistakes were made by the madman in the way he engaged his targets and did not follow this rule. Thankfully for us he was an unsuccessful gunman in several cases as have been most other of the madmen in their deranged efforts. In fact most of the victims in these horrendous acts of violence live either untouched or wounded. There are a lot of professionals, hunters and other shooters who have the need to follow this rule.
    Unless your profession counts on that clock to stop at the last shot fired and bring home the money to your family to support them as the primary caregiver this rule needs to be followed. Otherwise your training may fail you as you stand there confused while the deer flees further into the woodline or the enemy continues to fight or you have to "go back" and finish a plate "that should have fallen".
    Fast clock times do not make good gunfighters though one should always challenge their own abilities in training as long as proper tactics are not forgotten or compromised for ego.
    Knowledge is Power, Practiced Knowledge is Strength, Tested Knowledge is Confidence

  • #2
    Makes sense to me. When I did law enforcement I was trained to double tap, repeatedly, center mass, until the target fell down or otherwise stopped moving.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Bull View Post
      Makes sense to me. When I did law enforcement I was trained to double tap, repeatedly, center mass, until the target fell down or otherwise stopped moving.
      ahh yes zombieland rule #4 LOL always double tap hahaha
      I used to double tap as trained as well but I saw some tough targets and changed my way of thinking and training after my return. I think that when carrying a limited capacity weapon the double tap has some merit still but with high caps I do not IMO. Go tills it's down.
      We just recently at a competition did the Bill Jordan Drill, http://pistol-training.com/drills/bill-drill, and I could place 6 rds in the "A" zone on a standard IPSC in 3.35 seconds from the draw with the stock glock and a serpa that I carry. I put 5 rds on a falling steel last week too and have done this multiple times and 5 seems to be my max number before it grounds. As long as I can maintain or improve on this I think I will continue with multiple rds rapidly on target rather than the double. My goal is 2-6 rds per target with a 2-3inch spread as all pistol calibers are weak and ineffective compared to long guns.
      Knowledge is Power, Practiced Knowledge is Strength, Tested Knowledge is Confidence

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      • #4
        @ Matt. Yeah, I like the sound of that. I have really slacked on range time since I got out, so I have to figure out whats best for me without regs to worry about. I'm smiling now, because I'm sitting here typing, with my girlfriend asleep next to me, and from the bed I can see the guns I'm taking to the range when she goes to work tomorrow. Hahahaha.

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        • #5
          I carry a .380, and even with hollow points I plan on pulling the trigger until I hear a click, and then I'll have the back up mag in hand. Like you say, there is NO point in playing around when it comes time. I carry 13 rounds per clip, and if it ever came down to using that weapon, it would be because my life or another person's life is in immediate danger. At that point, the bad guy as made the rule, and one of us ain't walking, or even crawling away. Hey, he can still shoot you from the ground, right? Why chance it. Granted, if you walk up to the body and put two in his head the sheriff is going to ask you some hard questions, so don't do that, but make ABSOLUTELY sure he's down. If he's worth shooting once, he's worth shooting several times....

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          • #6
            Definitely. Plus he won't testify against you that way. Just saying.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Bull View Post
              Definitely. Plus he won't testify against you that way. Just saying.
              In todays camera world thats almost a non issue anymore. Ok a girlfriend and going to the range, now your just bragging LOL
              Knowledge is Power, Practiced Knowledge is Strength, Tested Knowledge is Confidence

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              • #8
                down doesn't necessarily mean a thing, either. He can still fire from the ground, and he may have fallen because you hit his femur, for instance. Shoot until you either see his brains splatter, or you run out of ammo.

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                • #9
                  It was the late 70's, and a few of us were popping cans. I get very bored very quick, so I call letters, ON the can... well an idjit next to me saw what i was doing, and thought it was funny to wait till he saw my finger start to move, and pop my can, then his.

                  He did this once, I looked at him.

                  He did it again, I nlooked at him.

                  the third time we set up cans, I looked at him, and hung one off a twig, on a small tree.

                  I went back, with all the others. put a new magazine in my Ten22, (highly tuned, I might add, now)

                  I took the typical position, and just as I started to squeeze, I rapidly aquired the gently swinging can, on the twig. Ten Round, 9 Seconds, the group could be covered with a quarter..... I then looked at the idjit, and asked if I had made myself clearly understood.

                  He was still sort of glassy eyed when he answered yes. the ONLY weapons I own that I have NOT smithed are my Glock 21, and my PTR-91.... I cut my first smithing metal on that Ten22, and have done every thing from their Single Sixes to Super Black Hawks and Security Sixes.... I have a S&W worked on from their Pro Shop, it needed nothing I could do.

                  But yes, training to shoot means shoot until it stops.

                  If it requires killing, it should be fast. Complete, no questions that it is done.

                  philip
                  for Jesus,

                  my life I give,
                  philip

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                  • #10
                    Mozambique drills for me. As a instructor once said to me, "shoot and keep shooting untill the threat goes down, then a smoke check" Might get you in trouble in a court of law, but at least your alive to go to court. Or post SHTF/TEOTWAKI... smoke check everyone, its the only way to be shure.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bull View Post
                      Makes sense to me. When I did law enforcement I was trained to double tap, repeatedly, center mass, until the target fell down or otherwise stopped moving.
                      We were taught double tap center mass, head shot.... shoot until the person/animal was no longer a threat.

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                      • #12
                        Double tap, head shot, groin shot then get mad and stomp and mud hole in'em then stomp it dry!
                        Knowledge is Power, Practiced Knowledge is Strength, Tested Knowledge is Confidence

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                        • #13
                          Ya know, FORGET these people. As long as you're safe while shooting and stay within the rules of the range (if there are rules at the range), then these people have no business. I got a wrath of **** from some guy and I wasnt doing anything wrong. Just showing my family how to shoot. BUT this guy was teaching someone to shoot also and thought it would make him look 'profesional' to reprimand me...for nothing. And twice too! It made me really mad! I've also seen this happen to other people too. Dadgumit (lol) I want to take the various NRA courses and the next time this happens, I'll get them tossed out (or at least I'll shut them up). Jeez! Give a fat *** a rifle and a fanny pack and he becomes an expert range cadre.
                          Last edited by Lowdown3; 09-27-2011, 01:59 PM. Reason: forget

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bill Spies View Post
                            Ya know, F these people. As long as you're safe while shooting and stay within the rules of the range (if there are rules at the range), then these people have no business. I got a wrath of **** from some guy and I wasnt doing anything wrong. Just showing my family how to shoot. BUT this guy was teaching someone to shoot also and thought it would make him look 'profesional' to reprimand me...for nothing. And twice too! It made me really mad! I've also seen this happen to other people too. Dadgumit (lol) I want to take the various NRA courses and the next time this happens, I'll get them tossed out (or at least I'll shut them up). Jeez! Give a fat *** a rifle and a fanny pack and he becomes an expert range cadre.
                            We have a senior RSO at ours that we can call and take care of those issues. They live for that and stalk the ranges when they think other RSOs arent around to shut them down. Some will even become RSOs to flex on others. I get their name and if they buck on that i walk over and take a picture of their tag and them with my cell phone. They are lowely pathetic bottom feeders, do not let them ruin you and your families times.
                            Knowledge is Power, Practiced Knowledge is Strength, Tested Knowledge is Confidence

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                            • #15
                              There is at least one in every crowd that has to put their nose is somebody else's shooting it seems.

                              As long as your being safe and following range rule, how you train is your business. I think your training and philosophy has extreme merit, as long as you dont get too programmed not to adjust to multiple targets/attackers.

                              Not sure who I stole this quote from, probably Clint Smith, "Don't shoot him until you think he's dead, shoot him until HE thinks he's dead". I prescribe to that philosophy and teach it to others ever chance I get.

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