Night Vision

[xdpatriot]

Has anybody given any thought to night vision? I have thought about it quite a bit and came to the conclusion that in a scenario were batteries would be hard to come by and/or replenish, parachute flares may be a better investment. I have started to order red parachute flares. They're not too bad on the pocket book and you could get a lot of them for a fraction of the price of some night vision. You have to spend quite a bit of $ to get a good, reliable set of NODS or a Scope. What are anyone's plans in this scenario?

[Matt In Oklahoma]

I wont go into my plans details but like everything else it's a mixture. Think sound, light, show stoppers, obsticles in layers
One day maybe I can get quality NVGs but not right now. The flares would be a good idea but I gotta be real careful because of dry grassland, high oklahoma winds and fires and maybe everyone will have issues once folks stop mowing and clearing underbrush.
Where are you getting your flares from?

[xdpatriot]

Americanspecialtyammo.com
Not asking anyone to break OPSEC, just curious about opinions. Thanks for the input.

[Lowdown3]

Batteries are easily rechargeable via sun, hand cranked type setups, etc.

Their will be plenty of things to use small batteries for.

Until you really use a quality third Gen unit, like a PVS14, you really don't get a true feel for what all it will do for you.

Using a para flare will expose YOUR POSITION. How often will a jumpy - or tired -or inexperienced- guard pump a flare at the wrong time? It's great to think they will "only" be used when a full on attack happens. They won't be.

Do some infil drills around your retreat with full security setup. Experience this.

So you have a couple guys out checking the area- aka a patrol. So how can you identify them? Gonna pop a flare for that? That will be obvious. Have the patrol signal with a light? Exposes the patrol. How about having the patrol signal with an IR flashlight? No one sees it without NV. Also, you can see and IDENTIFY whether it's your patrol or a couple looters trying to gain entrance. Maybe they overheard your challenge and password. Maybe they got that info from your patrol when they caught and tortured them.

Be able to see and IDENTIFY threats, avoid FRIENDLY FIRE ACCIDENTS, bug out at night WITHOUT LIGHT, run a night op and know for certain "who's who in the zoo". Being able to use the NV device in conjunction with a weapon is muiy beneficial.

It's very possible to shoot at night without lights, NV or illumination, but it takes time and training to develop that skill. And even after that skill is developed, it is FURTHER HELPED by the use of a NV device mounted on your weapon.

I've taken people that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at night (no illumination, no lights) and got them hitting 95% of the time with a PVS14 mounted on their weapon.

Force multipliers..... Just like Seismic Intrusion detectors, thermal imaging units, etc.

[xdpatriot]

Alright Lowdown, no more posts from you or you'll convince me to invest in NV and get me in trouble with the Mrs!
Thanks for the info. Those were some of the same arguments I told to some buddies. Looks like I may have been on the right track after all.

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

I have been exploring NV as well. I had a chance to look through a friends PVS14 about 3 months ago. Now, it was a full moon, but we went to the shadows and looked into a tree line about 50 yds away. I was looking through it and could see the dogs running around in and out of the shadows. I then looked at the tree line and could make out the small bushes next to the trees and could see them moving with the light wind we had that night. The tree line was in the shadows as well, as we tried to find the darkest areas to stand and look into. I was amazed! I reluctantly handed the scope back to my friend after looking through it for a couple minutes. He put it to his eye and said, "oh crap, the gain is off". He then adjusted the gain and handed it back to me. I then looked into the same tree line and could see a metal gate about 20 feet back into the tree line. On the gate I could see the chain and lock plus all the bushes and tall grass in the area. I took it away from my eye and could only make out that there was a tree line, as it was dark in that area. Without any NV I could not even make out the individual trees until I looked up to the sky and could see the tree tops much less know that there was a gate 20 feet into the woods. Everything at the ground level was just blackness without the PVS14. I thought to myself, right at that moment, what if I was on patrol...I would have seen if there was anyone crouching back in that little hidey-hole. Without that PVS14 I would have walked into a potential ambush. That is when a light clicked on...what a great force multiplier.

I was sold at that time that the PVS14 is the way to go. It is rugged, compact and the best thing out there as it is military grade. Now, I have done a ton of reading and searching the web but in all honesty I have not looked through any other NV set ups, but I doubt anything else can surpass the quality and functionality of the PVS14. Now just to come into some $$ so I can get one from our board sponsor JRH enterprises.

Disclosure: This is not a commercial for JRH, although I have not seen a better price anywhere on the web from a respectable dealer that can beat his price. When I do come into some $$ for NV, I will be buying from JRH. I am just describing what I saw that night and my opinions. YMMV

[winddancer]

Since purchasing a PVS 14, I don't know how I had ever planned to have any security at night. It makes a world of difference. I had used cheap nv back 20 plus years ago and was not impressed. But the PVS 14 is like looking "into" the night. And if you need to fire a weapon while wearing one, no problem. With an Eotech 552.A65 mounted on your AR, night shooting couldn't be easier.
All the weapons you have won't do you any good if you get bushwhacked at night.
Yes, I did purchase from JRH, and glad I did.

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

winddancer, I have heard that from more than one person. I have a couple friends that used some older NV when in the military. They were heavy from what I have been told. When they got a PVS14 they were amazed how good NV can really be. Other non-military guys that have tried some cheaper gen 1 NV and then trying the PVS14 said there was no comparison.

[Lowdown3]

Thanks for the nice comments WD and PSD, we appreciate it.

I sold all my 2nd gen equipment years ago to purchase my first PVS14- I'm glad I did! That one third gen unit did the job of the PVS5's I had, the Patriot Pocketscope and the PVS4 weapons sight. And it did them all much better. I've sold them on layaway type arrangements as well, can't really advertise that but we can do stuff like that for folks on the forums here- just email me and we'll work something out.

[claymore]

Got my dunce cap on and sitting in the corner. How much light is too much light? Neighbors 300W porchlight going to be too much to look at? How about car headlights lighting an area, is that going to be too bright or how about streetlights ?

[Klayton]

Im not the NV expert here claymore, but I think I remember reading somewhere that the new generation NV has a safety built in for bright lights (headlights, streetlights, and even some muzzleblasts/nearby indirect fire explosions). Same article, if I remember right, also stated old generation models had a problem with intense "halos" around the light object and some even shut down as a safety feature. But again, not the true expert on this subject, cant afford NV on my current budget unfortunately. =(

[onebigelf]

If I could afford good Night Vision I would. IMO nothing is a bigger force-multiplier. The ability to operate in the dark when others are feeling their way along that NV gives you can make a small force capable of not only winning against a larger one, but of doing so with relative impunity. If you train with it. It also gives an individual or a small force the ability to move without detection. If I get to the point that I can scrape up $3000 for a single piece of gear, this is it.

John

[Lowdown3]

Claymore-

2nd gen US (military) stuff (most) had what was called "Auto Brightness Control" or ABC. Basically when a super bright light source entered it's view, it would automatically dim down the tube to protect itself.

This new third gen Pinnacle autogated stuff really seems to have no need for it.... Someone on here, who has a Vulcan type intelligence ;) took about a bajillion candlepower Surefire flashlight at about 10 feet from one of my 14's at a GA campout a few years ago as we were trying to see if it would dim down the tube. It neither dimmed down nor was the SLIGHTEST BIT AFFECTED by the extremely bright light. I think his reply after that was "fascinating." ;)

I've watched very bright ground fireworks with mine at distances of less than 10 feet- no affect to the tube.

Basically it's NOTHING like older generations of NV. I hesitated for a long time on upgrading to third gen because on the early third gen stuff, I really did not see the (then) $2,000. difference in price. Then about 6 years ago I got a chance to use the new Pinnacle Autogated third gen technology and I was amazed at the leap forward it was. I was hooked at that point.

https://www.pvs14video.com

You can see the "standard" model of the PVS14 in action on this video.

Things to consider-
1. You want to buy Mil spec Night Vision where possible. Why? Just like buying a military grade weapon, it will be built tougher and designed to withstand the rigors of actual use better than a cheesy commercial unit.
2. A unit that uses all military parts will allow you to FIND PARTS easier later on. We had a lot of guys that scoffed at buying PVS4's in the 1990's cause their was a lot of cheap Russian sets on the market. "Why should I buy a PVS4 for $1200. (at the time) when I can buy a Russian Breakalotski model for $600?" These same guys couldn't find PARTS for their Russian Breakalotski NVG six months later when it did break. The guys that bought PVS4's (US military models) are STILL able to find parts, despite the fact that PVS4's are over 40 years old.

And that is a very serious consideration for what we are doing! Logistics, logistics, logistics!!!

There are a lot of units out there that have "14" in their name but are not mil spec. Some will look very similar but have a lot of PROPRIETARY PARTS from China, India wherever the hell. Similar bad idea- good luck finding those proprietary parts 10 years from now!

A decent 14 will have a 5 year warranty, use all mil spec parts, be waterproof to 66 feet, use 1 AA battery and have an ITT/Exelis tube.

Tube life is very long on these so -while we don't sell them used- if you found a really good deal on a used set from a dealer that would back it up, a quality used set might be an option. I've seen used sets go for as high as $2500. though, and to me, it's silly to not drop another $300. or so dollars and have a New set with a warranty, an ITT/Exelis data sheet (pedigree) with it, etc. I think their is a sale coming up this week also ;) (Had to throw that in)

[winddancer]

Used set at the Pensacols, FL gun show a few months back was $2895.00 FIRM!! Just had to laugh when the gentleman tool me the price. Didn't make him none too happy, either, when I told the guy looking at it about JRH's price.

[Patriot Prepper]

Night Vision is essential. The problem is, many preppers cannot even afford the guns they need. Without Night Vision, you are at a complete disadvantage over those who have it. Our military "owns the night."

If you have the opportunity go out for a night shoot with friends who have NV or go out with a hunting guide who uses NV, do it! In Florida there are hog hunters who will take you on a night hunt using NV.

It is imperative to get familiar with NV - you might want to start off with Gen 2 and move up to the more expensive Gen 3 - there's a link on this forum to JHR - they have night vision.

Every member of your group should have some NV goggles, and NV sights for your marksman. But that is easier said than done. Like most things involved with prepping, money can become an issue. Do everything you can to get "started" with Night Vision even if that means buying one cheap Gen 2 product. Then go out and test it and play with it.

Keep in mind the difference between Gen 2 and Gen 3 is like comparing regular TV with high def. Also note that the useful range of Gen 3 far exceeds the limited range of Gen 2.

Before you do buy any NV, be sure you are adept at using your weapons and have some ammo stored. If you can't shoot well in daylight, you may need to put more energy into shooting than buying NV.

Bottom line, NV is essential as is defense. NV should be an integral part of your defense plan.