Flak Jacket questions

[Blowmax10]

Lets just say for the sake of argument that I knew someone in the military and they gave me a "surplus" Plate carrier without the plates in it.

1. Is it legal for me to own?

2. Without the plates it is basically just a Flak vest so is it worth using without the plates?

If I did own one I think I would put it aside and if SHTF I would cut some steel plates to go where the ceramic plates normally go

I need some input on this one

[Matt In Oklahoma]

1. Is it legal for me to own? I'm not sure, each state is different on body armor

2. Without the plates it is basically just a Flak vest so is it worth using without the plates? Yes it still has ballistic capabilities that are easily researched for each type and will tell you the level and then match it to what calibers it will stop

If I did own one I think I would put it aside and if SHTF I would cut some steel plates to go where the ceramic plates normally go that thick of steel i would get it cut pre SHTF with someone who has a plasma cutter and then grind down the edges and round them and get some rubberized spray material to put on the edges to further buffer it against the material

I need some input on this one

Hypothetically of course, cause i'm certainly not speaking from experience :)

[Grand58742]

If I did own one I think I would put it aside and if SHTF I would cut some steel plates to go where the ceramic plates normally go

The other problem with this is spalling. When a round hits a plate, sometimes the force travels through the plate and rips off a chunk from the back side. The bullet doesn't penetrate, but the hunk of steel from the back acts like it's own ballistic projectile. It's called spalling. Some of our earlier anti-tank rounds used this principle.

.Mil plates are generally covered with a Kevlar or Spectra weave over the steel plate material to prevent this. Even the ceramic plates have the weave over them. Spalling is why we went away from steel inserts and to ceramic entirely. So just be in the know of spalling before using a plain steel insert.

[eeyore]

You could always go to Ebay and do a search for ballistic plates and add the right kind of plate to the vest, if you ever run across the vest

[Matt In Oklahoma]

I also hear tell that these guys have some used ones for "testing" at a lower pricing

http://www.bulletproofme.com/

any direction you go i would make/buy 3 and test one because as Grand wisely pointed out there can be issues

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

The other problem with this is spalling. When a round hits a plate, sometimes the force travels through the plate and rips off a chunk from the back side. The bullet doesn't penetrate, but the hunk of steel from the back acts like it's own ballistic projectile. It's called spalling. Some of our earlier anti-tank rounds used this principle.

.Mil plates are generally covered with a Kevlar or Spectra weave over the steel plate material to prevent this. Even the ceramic plates have the weave over them. Spalling is why we went away from steel inserts and to ceramic entirely. So just be in the know of spalling before using a plain steel insert.

I just had a similar conversation with someone about this the other day, but we couldn't remember the word "spalling". His question to me was "what if I took some of my kevlar chaps I have for my chainsaw and make a "pillow case" for my steel plate, would that hold the fragment?" I had to shrug my shoulders as I have no clue....any ideas?

Sorry to thread drift, but when I saw the spalling issue I had to ask.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

I just had a similar conversation with someone about this the other day, but we couldn't remember the word "spalling". His question to me was "what if I took some of my kevlar chaps I have for my chainsaw and make a "pillow case" for my steel plate, would that hold the fragment?" I had to shrug my shoulders as I have no clue....any ideas?
Sorry to thread drift, but when I saw the spalling issue I had to ask.

It would depend on the tightness of the weave as well as the layers. I really can't say without actual testing. In theory yes, fragments generally do not have the energy of a bullet. What I do not know is if there is enough layers on chaps to give it a rating. A level two will take care of most of that easily.
I still wear a full kevlar vest behind the plates to absorb whatever comes thru. Even ceramic plates will sand/powder blast you pretty good without that layer.

[1Admin]

The only downside of the ceramic plates is they are supposed to be X rayed every couple years IIRC. Also, viability of them tends to go down after the first round hits compared to steel IIRC. Definitely lighter weight though.

[TyrannyUnleashed]

Hypothetically of course, cause i'm certainly not speaking from experience :)

Where might one go to find out if is legal in his/her state?
Just curious, as I would have never thought to inquire if this is legal or not.

[Pop_45]

I have seen Viet Nam era flack vests advertised in a mail order catalog. But my foggy brain can't remember which one. I'm thinking Sportsmans Guide? It didn't have the plates. Check local and state laws to make sure if it's allowed in your AO.

[Grand58742]

Definitely lighter weight though.

What they reduce in weight they make up for in bulk, at least the ESAPI plates we carry do. You can have slim and heavy or bulky and light.

Steel plates aren't as bad when you just have a plate carrier, like a Palm or Tac Tailor. But when you add in the remainder of the vest (like an Interceptor or IOTV) and the accouterments it gets real heavy, real fast and that extra pound or two you save on the ceramic plates really isn't a whole lot when you are going over 30 pounds on body armor alone.

[Grand58742]

I just had a similar conversation with someone about this the other day, but we couldn't remember the word "spalling". His question to me was "what if I took some of my kevlar chaps I have for my chainsaw and make a "pillow case" for my steel plate, would that hold the fragment?" I had to shrug my shoulders as I have no clue....any ideas?

Sorry to thread drift, but when I saw the spalling issue I had to ask.

A good question. And my answer gets expensive lol. I would say a person might have to try it before betting their life on it. If he had a plate and a spare set of chaps, putting it together and shooting it with some realistic ammo (5.56, 7.62 Soviet, NATO, etc) would be the only way of knowing for certain. I know this isn't realistic, but at the same time, that's the only way of knowing for certain.

Or send the idea in to "Box of Truth." They might like the idea and give it a whirl.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Where might one go to find out if is legal in his/her state?
Just curious, as I would have never thought to inquire if this is legal or not.

My State actually has the state statutes in a downloadable form on the net thru http://www.oklegislature.gov/osStatuesTitle.html
I would expect most states have that it just takes a little research

[610Alpha]

Here it is for Illinois:

http://law.justia.com/codes/illinois/2010/chapter720/072000050HArt_33F.html

[TyrannyUnleashed]

My State actually has the state statutes in a downloadable form on the net thru http://www.oklegislature.gov/osStatuesTitle.html
I would expect most states have that it just takes a little research

Here it is for Illinois:

http://law.justia.com/codes/illinois...0HArt_33F.html

Great,
Thanks for the areas I may start looking. When I get back home in a few days, for TN. I'll report back here for anyone else in TN that may be as curious as myself.