Weapon support gear for the prepared citizen.

[Rmplstlskn]

As for ultra-lightweight, here is a little CHEAP sewing experiment I did for just some simple range work...


TT Riggers Belt with some modified Canadian military suspenders that loop onto the riggers belt. A simple Kydex holster and a modified USGI 3-mag ammo pouch (until something better comes along). My pistol mag pouches snap on. Very light, simple and the suspenders carry the weight so I can have the belt looser for bending & such...

Rmpl

[barfife]

Understood. That may be something to add to the list down the road. As to the rest, we'll do a different thread discussing those issues/concerns. :)

Personally I would also like to see attachable mag holders for different weapon mags. I have 32 rd glock mags for the Kel tec sub 2000 and other times 223 20 rd mags for the AR .

[Grand58742]

One question I'll ask specifically, is, what do you prefer in the way of magazine retention? Something simple like bungee corded pull tabs? Full flaps over the mag/pouch? There are reasons that we can think of for both, but I'm not sure how many folks have ever really thought about it and how it applies to the prepared citizen.

I think both full flap designs and the bungee corded and the friction retention pouches all have their place. If I'm worried about doing a lot of running, hitting the ground, crawling through mud and sand, full flap might be the way to go. If I need them quick where I'll be doing a lot of shooting and rapid reloads, friction retention might be best. The bungee cord design is best at moving a lot with that additional peace of mind of having it retained better. You can still get at it quicker than a flap design, but have the additional security of keeping the mags in the pouches where they belong for the most part.

I think mag pouches are mission dictated. Having said that, I'd love to see something like a double mag pouch with both a flap and bungee retention. Flap can be stowed when not needed inside (like velcroed inside) and the bungees used instead. Best of both worlds in my opinion.

ETA: And while the old USGI 3 mag pouch is probably the best design ever invented...I'd look at limiting the pouches to single or double configuration. JMHO

[Grand58742]

And you realize you just opened up a can of worms here lol I'm a first rate gear junkie (some would use a less than politically correct term in the place of "junkie") and have always thought "ya know, this and that would make this better."

In reference to having your gear around while doing odd jobs. I like the murse option the best. Easy to put on, take off and you can get at the conents rapidly. The problem with most of those are they aren't designed to be modular for the most part. Maxpedition makes good kit, but the lack of attachment points is a hinging factor. But I was thinking...

Something like a GP ordnance pouch (like this http://www.supplycaptain.com/index.c...7&ParentCat=66 ) however, instead of having the MOLLE attachments points on the outside, put three single mag pouches in its place. One pouch on the left or right side for a blow out kit and another small GP pouch on the other. Now you have space for mags, FAK, other smaller doo dads and plenty of interior space for additional "things." Mini survival kit in a shoulder mounted bag. Easy to put on, take off, stow, get at things when you need them the most and small enough not to weigh you down too much like a full sized BOB or even a day patrol pack might. Just the bare essentials. And it's marketable to military as a bug out kit (yes, the .mil uses that term as well) or a grab and go bag, cops as an active shooter bag and preppers as a post SHTF EDC kit.

Make it in 'yote brown and I'd pick one up for certain lol

[Diz]

First of all, I want to re-emphasize that Hawkeye and I are totally comitted to making kit for the armed and/or prepared American; not military, not police, or gov't agencies that think they're both. Following the KISS principle has been on our minds throughout the entire process.

The ultimate AK rigs IMHO have been the combloc designs I've studied. Not much on the domestic side has really impressed me. For a pure assault rig, the chicom has no equal. It has one of the best mag pouches out there, is sturdy, inexpensive, and readily available. The main drawback is being a pure assault rig; you don't have provisions for carrying much else. But using this rig as a base, we have added some other features, such as PALS webbing on the sides for attaching what you want to carry, which makes a much more versatile rig.

The Russian rigs are very similar but have been updated with more modern materials, hardware, etc. They have also added additional pouches for bayonets, pop-flares, grenades, utilties, etc. While nice, I think these are a little overboard for us. The attempt at modernizing the chicom rig was was OK, and I guess it works for them, but they have now gone the same route as US military LBE. It too is over-wrought with a lot of stuff we don't need.

The domestic rigs have all the features we come to know and love. You have a choice of open-top and top flap, plenty of PALS webbing, velcro, different closure and tension systems, not to mention the latest materials and hardware. But most are just scaled-up AR rigs.

What we have tried to do is take the best from each. The hard part has been to do that and still keep it simple, rock solid, and at a good price point. While we would love to make an all-singing, all-dancing rig, with everything people have suggested, you end up making compromises in simplicity and cost. WE are trying to makes rigs with 80-90% of what you guys have suggested here for our first production run.

[Hawkeye]

First of all, I want to re-emphasize that Hawkeye and I are totally comitted to making kit for the armed and/or prepared American; not military, not police, or gov't agencies that think they're both. Following the KISS principle has been on our minds throughout the entire process.

Cant stress that enough. Not saying that any of those entities couldnt use this stuff, thats just not who we have in mind in designing/making it.

[Spock]

awesome. I'm looking forward to at the minimum buying some mag pouchs in MARPAT. also I should mentioned earlier I FREAKING LOVE THE BLACK HAWK STRIKE CLIPS. my black hawk pouches use them and they rock. if you haven't used them buy some and try em out.

First of all, I want to re-emphasize that Hawkeye and I are totally comitted to making kit for the armed and/or prepared American; not military, not police, or gov't agencies that think they're both. Following the KISS principle has been on our minds throughout the entire process.

The ultimate AK rigs IMHO have been the combloc designs I've studied. Not much on the domestic side has really impressed me. For a pure assault rig, the chicom has no equal. It has one of the best mag pouches out there, is sturdy, inexpensive, and readily available. The main drawback is being a pure assault rig; you don't have provisions for carrying much else. But using this rig as a base, we have added some other features, such as PALS webbing on the sides for attaching what you want to carry, which makes a much more versatile rig.

The Russian rigs are very similar but have been updated with more modern materials, hardware, etc. They have also added additional pouches for bayonets, pop-flares, grenades, utilties, etc. While nice, I think these are a little overboard for us. The attempt at modernizing the chicom rig was was OK, and I guess it works for them, but they have now gone the same route as US military LBE. It too is over-wrought with a lot of stuff we don't need.

The domestic rigs have all the features we come to know and love. You have a choice of open-top and top flap, plenty of PALS webbing, velcro, different closure and tension systems, not to mention the latest materials and hardware. But most are just scaled-up AR rigs.

What we have tried to do is take the best from each. The hard part has been to do that and still keep it simple, rock solid, and at a good price point. While we would love to make an all-singing, all-dancing rig, with everything people have suggested, you end up making compromises in simplicity and cost. WE are trying to makes rigs with 80-90% of what you guys have suggested here for our first production run.

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

Okay, I'm coming to this thread a little late and I agree with much of what has been stated so far. For the most part I see (and I could be wrong) most scenarios won't have prolonged firefights. They will be quick and dirty. Not to say that there won't be patrols and such which may require more gear, but for around the homestead tending to the daily chores I think a smaller rig will be better. I like the 1st, 2nd and 3rd line set-up. Around the AO doing the chores one might wear a 1st line pistol belt with suspenders and a couple extra mags, and IFAK. Some may want to have a rig that would carry 2-3 rifle mags and H2O bladder. In other words, something simple but with the capabilities to be able to add to or subtract from depending on "mission". There are many rigs that are good for one thing but not another thing.

Being an AK guy, I have been really looking at the US Palm gear, specifically the Attack Rack. It carries 4 AK 30 rounders on the outside with 4 pistol mags, but has the capability for an additional 3-30 round mags inside a pocket. I feel it would be good to go for around the AO with just 2-4 mags on the outside which would give you 90-150 rounds (including one in rifle) to get to cover, but for a longer patrol you would be able to carry 8 mags (including the one in the rifle). Thats 240 rounds for a firefight. Sure, you have 3 of those mags in a zippered pocket, but you probably would have a little time to get to those if needed. This rig I feel could be made a bit more useful by adding a back that could hold or attach a bladder, and maybe removing two pistol mag holders from one side and having room for a drop bag or utility pouch or IFAK. Working around the AO, you could get away with just the Attack Rack modified to have water on your back, a IFAK on your side, two pistol mags, 3 rifle mags and you could carry your pistol in one of the other mag pouches. If the water bladder was thin enough than the 3rd line backpack could be worn over this set-up. On an extended patrol this would then give you all three lines and a total loadout (all three lines) would be pistol with space for at least 2-4 extra mags, rifle with 7-30 round mags,
FAK's, water bladder, canteen with cup, buttpack, utility pouch, drop pouch, plus whatever you carry in your ruck and in your pockets.

Here is the site for the Attack Rack http://uspalm.com/index.php?option=c...w=product&id=3

Of course, being able to add SAPI or such would be an added bonus.

If you get to wanting to do a first aid bag, e-mail me. I have some ideas for the same idea you guys are looking at but for a FA bag. This would be more than an IFAK, but not geared towards the USAF Pararescue dude.

[Jerry D Young]

Just a few thoughts.



No Velcro



No mesh



No plastic zippers



ALICE “Silent Clasp” pouchclosures or “Fixed” female side release receiver on the pouch with webbing maleside release w/webbing tail keeper included



True quick detach and reattachrucks on the back of the vest over a hydration carrier as part of the vest,again with “Fixed” female side release attachment on the vest and webbingattached male w/webbing tail keeper workable with an improved buttpack



Webbing tail keepers on allwebbing requiring them



Pouches for Stainless steel waterbottle/cup in addition to current style canteens



Small pouches for tools, smallerknives, lights, in single, dual, triple, and quad versions



Kydex/polymer lined knife sheathto accept various sizes of knives that don’t come with good sheaths



Vest can be MOLLE or specificconfigurations sewn



Include a MOLLE belt with thevest with integrated attachment for MOLLE or sewn vest



Light padded components, notthick, stiff padding, especially the belt and shoulders



Radio pouches to fit non-militaryradios such as FRS/GMRS/Murs/Amateur radios



A gun bearer similar to Kifaru’s



Pistol holsters including a goodflap version, not so thick as most, if possible



At least one low profile versionsimilar to a Scottevest, with 2 to 4 single mag flat pouches inside. Somepockets outside for other things, but the internal pockets for any tacticalitems



An optional well designed droppouch, large for rifles/carbines or smaller for those with just a pistol



And since you are keying on ARand AK platforms, include magazine options for a 40-round mags as well asdrums, in addition to the regular 30s.





Thoughts for additional optionsonce in production and AR/AK problems worked out.



.308 mag pouches for various .308MBRs Singles and doubles



Mag pouches for M1 Carbine; varioussizes of Saiga 12 gauge box & drum mags; single, dual, quad pistolmagazines



Stripper clip pouches for SKS10-round, Garand 8-round, Springfield 5-round, AR 10-round, M1 Carbine 10-round,M-14 5-round



Single round pouches 10/12/20s for.30-’06, .308, .300 WM,



Single round pouches for 12 and20 gauge shotshells including 3” 5/6/10/12s

[protus]

psDOG, once you move past 6 AK mags, it gets beffy fast. Even now, my HSGI warlord, gets front heavy,even with the hydro carrier on the back. It all gets heavy fast, and not comfy. That is a main reason why ive been milling over ideas of going to a 4 cell rig like the Tact tailor AK rig, the eagle /SKD 762 rigs etc. With pistol,IFAK,knife on a belt, extra mags,ammo and junk in a small assualt pack. Least with the pack you can balance the load, ditch the weight as need be( at a waypoint or lay up) and go on.
But also have the means to have a rig thats ready for fast use( indoors etc).
I recall how much i bumped,snagged into stuff wearing a LBV with buttpack, and how much it weighed.,. i was happy to swicth to a molle vest( TT modular vest)..and even happier when i got to my chest rig. But all of them, once loaded up "patrol" style sucked. Sorry maybe im a big wimp, but lugging 30+ lbs of junk, for hours at a time is suited for a pack , not a suspender set up, it kills you slowly imho . lol That much weight on a chest rig is that bad as well.

im only running 6x 30rdn AK mags on the warlord. 2 4 inch izzys and a cat, prc125 pouch with gloves, bandana and radio. and a max pedition coccon in front to hold some patrol junk and ear pro.
Inside im running a few cliff bars, hydro drink mixes, compass, gps,pen and paper, chem lights, led, bug juice, face net, mylar blanket. and wrist compass and face paint.
the hydro carrier, has a survival straw, small platypus bladder empty, my 3 liter bladder filled with 2 liters, a 6x6 sil tarp, and bible and strobe on the back.

[Lowdown3]

P- is their a tactical "ham sandwich" pouch? I heard somewhere that was critical, more so than actually carrying magazines in those pouches... Must be a "garage" thing? LOL

[protus]

P- is their a tactical "ham sandwich" pouch? I heard somewhere that was critical, more so than actually carrying magazines in those pouches... Must be a "garage" thing? LOL

LMAO
dude i almost spit my soup out over the screen...:p

[Diz]

You could say the US Palm rig is prolly the best domestic rig out there for the AK right now. I like the idea these guys had of making a truly dedicated AK rig. However, there are several features which I don't like. The base is too tall (IMHO) to accomadate the zipper pouch. An AK rig is tall enough (especially in comparision with an AR rig) without adding this extra height. The side panels need Molle webbing for any pouches you want to run, not just pistol-sized pouches. The shoulder strap design could use a little work. While I like the idea of tailored AK pouches, when you sew them down one way, you cannot reverse the mags if desired. And finally, after much testing, I am leaning heavily towards a full flap pouch design. Again, I applaud this company for making AK-specific gear, but it's just not what I would want to use.

Again, Hawkeye and I have designed these rigs for our own personal use, which in general means for armed civilians, and specifically for use in our terrain and situation. We felt you have to separate all the "speed-play" techniques being taught by the mainstream gun industry instructors out there, from what we felt we would actually need to fight with. As this applies to our chest rigs, we designed what we felt would be needed to carry our rifle support gear, both for short and long-range ops, in a woodland or swampland enviornment.

Hopefully we will have some first production run rigs to show you guys in the near future. We have taken a lot of your feedback into account. We have studied AK rigs literally from around the globe. WE have come up with something fairly unique, but it is also rugged and simple.

[Hawkeye]

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

Hawkeye,
Nice looking rigs! From the looks they seem to hold one thirty rounder in each pocket, correct? Are these the ones you and Diz created? How much and where can they be had? Any other pics?