Discussion of groups

[1Admin]

IB- every FAMILY would contribute $50. or $50. PER PERSON. I.e, the family that had 5 people had to drop $250. per month?

"Big ticket items" means different things to different people. Group use stuff? NVG's, upgrades to the BOL? A group food supply?

The problem I've always found is that once ANY dollars change hands, no matter for what, how little, etc. the relationship CHANGES.

Yet money HAS to be involved at some point in time. I've seen groups wherein one person flitted the bill for training materials, targets, etc. and HOPED that others would step up to the plate and chip a couple dollars in to help, only to be left feeling used and abused later when no one did. Later they instigated a small fee to help cover the costs of the materials.

Money is a weird thing among people- sometimes when people pay money towards something, they will VALUE it more. Other times they will assume that gives them license to lord over it, abuse it.

In general, you don't see a lot of groups doing "communal" type setups for this reason. If the early church couldn't make it work in the book of Act (Annais and Sapphira SP) then I doubt any of us can.

However, costs have to be covered and people shouldn't act stupid about paying their share IMO. "Takers" rarely last long in a real group, they show themselves quickly and get weeded out or pushed out.

[ibetiny]

@monkeybird Everyone would contribute a small amount every month about 50.00, that money would be spent on large ticket items that one person would have trouble getting by themselves. 3 people made the decision on what to buy and when, the list was put out for everyone to look at and the gear was located at the BOL. Since we knew how many families in the group and what the Items on the list cost, we knew the money was being spent properly. If you had real hardship you were excused but everyone in the group was notified. Too many hardships and you were out. To be honest 50.00 a month is not much and they did have nice gear to use. However I do see the potential for abuse.

[Lowdown3]

How does one "enrich themself" in a survival group? Not picking on you MB, just wanting to hear more about this.

[monkeybird]

My family and I were in a group that was just beginning. That lasted about as long as it too the ink to dry on the buy in list. The group had a buy in list that was 6 pages single spaced. 4 full pages dealt with weapons, ammo, and op\lp and patrolling. Only 1\4 page dealt with food storage\crop growing. Didn't take me long to split.

Now I have contact with 3 families in my area and meet with them occasionally. Since we are all within 25 miles or so, we decided not to preposition supplies. (partly due to a recent lack of a good BOL) If we could find a good BOL or someone with some livable land nearby we would probably make a more cohesive and binding group. If there is someone in the lake Ozark region who wishes to discuss mutual aid let me know!!!!

Anyway, my experience with groups makes me shy away from anything too structured. Support spiritually, group garden\canning, classes, help with physical labor, security, all can be done with a loose mutual aid pact. You could throw in some emergency scenarios and decide where to meet and what to bring without having a binding contract. If you get a core group-within-a-group then you can go as far as you are comfortable with.

The vast majority of scenarios the period of "living together for security" will be at most 6 or 8 months before you adjust to a new normal and people start to spread out. (just how long do you think the zombie hordes will last as a cohesive force before someone takes them out?) That being said, most true Christians will do fairly well together. Just give everyone some privacy and the ones who are least at ease will be the first ones to strike out on their own. Probably near by, and probably still friendly to you, you now have allies nearby.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if your ready yourself (as much as you can), then assimilating into a group should not be that difficult. I would love to be able to get weekend classes, camp out with the group, do patrolling\ambush practice, raise my own goats\chickens\fish\emu\chinchillas\lions\bald eagles\whales or whatever tastes good. But I haven't found that group yet. Till I do, I will be content with what God has let me do, and I will make it work.

Was the group with the 4 page list a real group, or someone with an economic scheme? Did everyone have to contribute the exact same thing? How was a leader chosen?

That's what bothers me about groups. Anyone can start a group the the sole purpose of enriching themselves and lording it over others. How do you tell the difference?

[ibetiny]

My family and I were in a group that was just beginning. That lasted about as long as it too the ink to dry on the buy in list. The group had a buy in list that was 6 pages single spaced. 4 full pages dealt with weapons, ammo, and op\lp and patrolling. Only 1\4 page dealt with food storage\crop growing. Didn't take me long to split.

Now I have contact with 3 families in my area and meet with them occasionally. Since we are all within 25 miles or so, we decided not to preposition supplies. (partly due to a recent lack of a good BOL) If we could find a good BOL or someone with some livable land nearby we would probably make a more cohesive and binding group. If there is someone in the lake Ozark region who wishes to discuss mutual aid let me know!!!!

Anyway, my experience with groups makes me shy away from anything too structured. Support spiritually, group garden\canning, classes, help with physical labor, security, all can be done with a loose mutual aid pact. You could throw in some emergency scenarios and decide where to meet and what to bring without having a binding contract. If you get a core group-within-a-group then you can go as far as you are comfortable with.

The vast majority of scenarios the period of "living together for security" will be at most 6 or 8 months before you adjust to a new normal and people start to spread out. (just how long do you think the zombie hordes will last as a cohesive force before someone takes them out?) That being said, most true Christians will do fairly well together. Just give everyone some privacy and the ones who are least at ease will be the first ones to strike out on their own. Probably near by, and probably still friendly to you, you now have allies nearby.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if your ready yourself (as much as you can), then assimilating into a group should not be that difficult. I would love to be able to get weekend classes, camp out with the group, do patrolling\ambush practice, raise my own goats\chickens\fish\emu\chinchillas\lions\bald eagles\whales or whatever tastes good. But I haven't found that group yet. Till I do, I will be content with what God has let me do, and I will make it work.

[Cimarron]

My family live 1700 miles away, I'm pretty sure they are not coming.

My wife's family (parents, brother) are going to be here but they will be of little help.

My children are 14, 11 and 7.

I have no doubt I can not go it alone. I HAVE to find someone/people to join with.

If I can find a group, they will be my family, my 'kin'

Survival will be our bond. Hunger and security our incentive.

And, if it works out that they are Christians. Then they are already my family by blood.

They are my brothers and sisters by the blood of Jesus Christ!

[Bull]

I agree with most of Rmpl and Protus' comments. And along the lines of what monkeybird said, a few weeks ago, I went camping with one of my best friends. We lived together when we were in the Coast Guard. Did search and rescues, did LE, worked, lived, partied together. Nearly together constantly. Well I haven't spent that much time with him in years. kept in touch and spent occasional weekends together. He freaking drove me nuts. He was going through a real stressful time, which is why I invited him to come with me. "Just blow everything else off and come clear your head." So I didn't clear my head, but got completely wound up all weekend. We were not on the same page about anything, and I had already planned and figured out how I would take care of all the details. He wanted to change everything up, and the times when he did, he screwed things up. So I think that people change enough so that even if you know someone, and have lived with them, unless you continually spend time together, and evolve and deal with your daily lives together, there is a good chance that you will have some friction. You obviously have a foundation to pull from, in order to resolve your problems, but the point is that there will definitely be challenges and the more time you can spend together, maintaining group cohesion, the better you will be for a long term survival type, banding together, situation.
I think the BOL is a major obstacle. Your group would have to agree on a BOL, then buy it, and maintain it. If everyone didn't want to move to, or move near, the BOL, then the problems become more difficult. I think all members of the group living in close proximity to each other, and the BOL, would be a huge advantage, if not a necessity.
I also think that everyone should be basically self sufficient: have enough food and supplies for themselves and their families. But the main purpose of the group is for security, efficiency, and economic purposes. What I mean is, if everything is done correctly, you could maintain security much better with a group. You could be much more efficient working together to grow and harvest food and livestock, hunt, build, acquire water, firewood, etc. Economics are similar, but by utilizing different skills and knowledge to solve problems and trade services. Those are the advantages I see in a group. So everyone has to bring enough to the table so to speak.

It would be a problem to have moochers as well as tyrants.

[Rmplstlskn]

I like our friends, but am not sure living with them would work out so well. As Protus said, my first choice is family.

I have seen this mentioned several times and i wonder if this is being over-personalized... These would NOT be people you LIVE WITH, under your roof, like family would... These are better called NEIGHBORS, but with a mutally-agreed focus.

My idea of a "community" is like a small neighborhood of INDIVIDUAL HOMES within a larger property boundary that could be secured (non-public property).

I agree, most people would go NUTS living with people that are not family (and even family drives us nuts)... But I would think most of us get along well with our GOOD neighbors... Same principle...

Rmpl

[SCinPNW]

I started a post last night, but then did something and lost my post. Since then, many have said what I had typed. I like the idea of having a group but am not comfortable with just hooking up with strangers, or even some of the people that we call our friends. I like our friends, but am not sure living with them would work out so well. As Protus said, my first choice is family.

One thing that I would like is a losely associated group of like minded people that worked together to increase skills and knowledge. My primary skill would be cooking. I can cook anything from scratch, and I have at last 4 different solutions to cooking in the event things go south. However, I would like to have more skills than just cooking. I am fairly proficient with a handgun, but really need to work on having a better understanding and comfort level with long guns. I can garden, but really am just a dabbler with the gardening and need to work on it.

Great thread!
SC

[monkeybird]

I agree with MustangGal. I really don't trust people in general. While I'm very social and attend many activities, I'm basically a loner. I go mental if I can't have a certain amount of time ALONE!

I'm also independent. I make my own decisions and solve my own problems. Big issues my husband and I discuss and decide together. I would do very badly following orders from someone I did not respect.

I worry about bullies. Some think they are leaders and lord it over everyone else. They're judgement is poor and their ability to listen is also. I simply would not be able to tolerate a situation like that.

Having been an E.R. nurse for many many years, I know that my expertise would be very useful. I also have advanced degrees specializing in Infection Control, that would be useful.

So far my group is my family. Just can't seem to get beyond the trust issue. While all of you sound wonderful online. How do I really know you're who you say you are. Also, people you meet and who company you enjoy regularly are totally different people if you have to live with them.

A few years ago I agreed to be a room mate for a very good friend on a cruise to Alaska. After the first 3 days or so, I promised myself NEVER again. I'd known this person for years. The moral is you really don't know someone til you've lived with them. Ask any married person.

I'd love a group, but it needs to be a loose group, not one of those "I give the orders and you obey" groups.

[protus]

No one can go it alone. History has proven that.
However a real group in these current times is a unicorn i think.
Mostly because of the economy and what people have dropped their $$ for the last 10+ years.
anyway.

Pros of a group-
community,safety in numbers, mutual aid, the ability to collectively think and solve larger problems that are above a single persons abilities.
Cons- ego,pride, greed, and laziness. aka basic group dynamics.

The main thing is what kind of group are folks wishing or wanting. Do they want a lose band of e- mailers,or contacts for short term events or a JWR style retreat group?

The issue with the JWR style or BOL style is like rmpl said is that there has to be boots on the ground living at the BOL or at least cultivating the area for sustainability. Another is Trust, like posted. Do you trust those there or if none are in place, to preposition supplies only to find out you cant get to it because of security issues or those in place closed the gate.

I think for the most part, those concerns can be cured with time. Time spent at the location and time spent with those at the location( aka other group members) .

The other style of group IMHO is great for events like , you broke down on I95 and need a ride, or hurricane. However even then, time, needs to be spent to cultivate the relationship between the group members or else you wont know who is who. Again, like the JWR one, is trust. I only see time as the answer, and time spent with other members fixing that one.

Seems time is a main thing in all of this..lol


Honestly, if i was to have a BOL and i was to form a group. It would consist of family, with an invite to only a few people i know already know, to pre place items if they wish, and to have a secondary location to their own to fall back on if need be.


either way both take a ton of time, trust, and compromise on all parties to be successful.

[protus]

I think you are referring to "Lights Out", but I could be mistaken.

your not .thats the name of it.

[MustangGal]

While I can see benefits from a group, I am concerned about getting mixed up in something that isn't what I thought it was.... like some sort of militia that is plotting to over throw the government.

I would also be concerned about faux preppers, pretending to put in the work, while planning to mooch or steal from others in the group. I guess I am just generally very skeptical of people.

[Hidden Agenda]

I read an internet novel on AR15.com many years ago about a "neighborhood" that banded together when some kind of EMP or something happened, I forget the name of it... Had some kind of Karate guy in it as the main dude...
Rmpl

I think you are referring to "Lights Out", but I could be mistaken.

[Rmplstlskn]

Here is a guy I like and admire, Pastor Dowell, who is doing the "community" thing in TN near KY. I like him and his doctrines and beliefs, but I am concerned his group is too centered on a "Pastor-type" figure as the main LEADER, which might be too much power in one man's hands... Still evaluating them before I think seriously about buying land next to them, or from them... But they seem to have a good thing going... Check out his other videos to see more on what they are doing there. Here is an INTRO...

http://youtu.be/POotpNckpic

Rmpl