Vacuum Sealers - Which brand?

[Klayton]

Not sure if the alumium lined plastic of MREs is similar to Mylar? But if you store MREs in a controlled atmosphere it more than doubles there inspection test date (estimated expiration date for civilians **wink**). I have eaten MREs that were over 10 years old. The catch is the controlled atmosphere. Not many survivalists have a warehouse set at a perfect 40 degrees F and a humidity level maintained between 50-60%. Humidity level prevents the packaging from prematurely dry rotting and cracking open.

[610Alpha]

@Lowdown - Please don't misunderstand, your experience is data!! I am sure that out there in the ether there is data about the lifespan of the vacuum seal plastic. I would also like to clarify that I did say "What is the most cost effective yet preventive way to store food", if the plastic isn't going to hold up then it wouldn't be very preventive. I am not all about the cheap, I will spend the $$ when it warrants it. I do this type of risk analysis at work and I take into consideration past experience as well as cost, and the likelihood of that event occurring etc....

I appreciate your input on this, believe me I don't want to waste $200. That is great news to only have to buy Oxygen Absorbers because they are pretty cheap compared to silica gel.

I ***ume that you store your jerky and what not in smaller bags due to the size of the batch?

Do you use silica gel? If so, what are you storing when you use it?

I think I saw your video today on youtube about long term storage, after I posted of course, ah well.

[Lowdown3]

We don't store jerky. When we do make it, it's usually just a way to capture some smaller scraps from butchering a deer. It usually comes out pretty good so it doesn't last long :)

For 99.9% of the applications of dry food packing you don't need MOISTURE absorbers. Different animal than oxygen absorbers. Even down here in the high humidity we have never used them for dry packing long term storage. I've never seen a problem.

For really hydroscopic type items like milk powder, dehydrated or FD cheese and eggs, your really better off buying them already professionally packed in #10 cans IMO. But if you do attempt to pack these items yourself, do so inside an AC building wherein their is control over humidity.

Good luck.

[610Alpha]

@Lowdown3 - Well you have probably saved a lot of us some extra money!! You have the heart of a teacher! My Financial Adviser always recommended that whenever you are looking to do business with someone find the person that has the heart of a teacher, he says who will know them because you learn from them, that's not to say there aren't good businesses out there that don't have this heart but you come away with more confidence in your decision. Which in turn adds value.

What thickness of mylar bags do you recommend? I saw some 5 mil bags but after your video I don't know if that is thick enough or not.

As long as I use mylar bags inside my food bucket, it doesn't matter if the bucket used to contain maynaise as long as I cleaned the bucket thoroughly, correct?

On the topic of Dry Ice, I had heard that one reason for using it was not to kill bugs but to actually drive out the Oxygen because CO2 is heavier than O2 so as the DI melts it sinks down into the bucket pushing up the oxygen out of the bucket. I can see this to have some validity because of the Atomic Mass of Carbon would make CO2 considerably heavier than O2 which would sublime into a Gas and flow down into the bottom of the bucket, with enough DI it could force out all the O2 in the bucket. What are your thoughts?

[Lowdown3]

Any bucket that originally held FOOD is o.k. Avoid buckets that have held cleansers, chemicals, etc.

Dry ice- people used dry ice back in the dinosaur era of food storage "BO2" if you will- Before Oxygen Absorbers LOL. They used it then as you said to displace some oxygen but also as a fumigant.

Here's the problem, a bucket BY ITSELF is NOT a viable long term oxygen barrier. Here's proof-

Checkout the rice that was stored (late 80's) by simply being poured into a clean bucket. It shows a massive amount of oxidation. How did the oxygen get in there? With the bucket filled to the top with rice their would not be enough residual oxygen to oxidize the entire bucket of rice. This shows that a bucket-BY ITSELF, i.e, WITHOUT mylar is not an adequate oxygen barrier.

So the problem with using dry ice is that the bucket is STILL not an adequate oxygen barrier. The dry ice will replace most of the oxygen at the time of packing, and that may remain the main gas in the bucket for a while, but 20 years down the road?

Also, using dry ice presents many safety hazards. Their is a reason you find it listed as an assasination item in old unpublished quasi govermental agencies manuals....

The simplest hazard is simply putting the lid on the bucket before it has fully turned to gas and thus creating a rice/dry ice bomb- not good.
Also, when/how are you 100% sure it's fully gassed out? Stick your face in there and sniff? "Kids don't try this at home!"

Also dry ice is usually hard to find, requires gloves, etc.

Their is a reason none of the professional packing houses use dry ice.

The only place I can see to recommend it is as follows: you happen to get some grains and either forget to pack them for six months so they sit around and get buggy or for whatever reason you get them a little buggy. Then I'd look at first doing the dry ice method and then after a week or so, pouring the contents of the bucket (buggies now probably all dead) into another bucket with mylar, sealing the mylar after putting in your absorbers and being good to go.

I wanted to say also, sorry if it looked like I was being rude in the earlier reply. I have to admit that I have a hard time relating to analytical type people. That's not to say I don't research things before I do them, I do, often times for years. But I lean more towards the "get out and do it and adjust as need be" mindset. It's worked for me- or I've been darn lucky ;) for a couple decades now.

[610Alpha]

@Lowdon3 - Thanks for all the info. No worries here, the one draw back with all this technology is that it is too easy to misread something, I can't hear your tone of voice by reading your words, nor your facial expression and vice versa. I try not to read posts with a tone of voice (I have and it was a whole misunderstanding) because I have been guilty of projecting my own attitude when I read a post or email, so I try to not do that. Enough of all that. I am here to learn and you are gracious enough to teach all of us. We are fortunate enough to have someone with food storage experience in the professional arena and who is willing to dispell the myths and give us the truth!


What thickness of mylar bags do you recommend? Is 5 mil good or should I get thicker?


Are the ziploc Mylar bags worth the extra expense? I realize that you have to make sure that the seal is good, too bad they don't have the yellow and blue makes green ziplocs LOL. Or should I just cough up the money and get the heat sealer?


The video only had the wheat with basil leaves or whatever those leaves were, no bad rice was shown.

[Lowdown3]

It's a two part video, I should have linked both of them. Part two shows the rice IIRC.

I've never used the ziplock mylar so I can't really comment on them. Seems like a possible failure point to me IMO.

5 or 7 ought to work fine. Their was some VERY thin mil ones going around a few years ago that also smelled like chemicals. I'm pretty sure they came from Impak/Sorbent. I haven't bought them in bulk for a decade, we usually just get a hundred or so every of often from Wendy Mae's Simpler Living. I haven't had any problems with stuff from her and buying from them your supporting a company that supports the preparedness movement. I'm willing to pay a couple of extra bucks to help those who help us. Follow the Ammo Connection ad at the bottom of the page to Wendy Mae's for mylar/oxygen absorbers.

[Lowdown3]

It's a two part video, I should have linked both of them. Part two shows the rice IIRC.

I've never used the ziplock mylar so I can't really comment on them. Seems like a possible failure point to me IMO.

5 or 7 ought to work fine. Their was some VERY thin mil ones going around a few years ago that also smelled like chemicals. I'm pretty sure they came from Impak/Sorbent. I haven't bought them in bulk for a decade, we usually just get a hundred or so every of often from Wendy Mae's Simpler Living. I haven't had any problems with stuff from her and buying from them your supporting a company that supports the preparedness movement. I'm willing to pay a couple of extra bucks to help those who help us. Follow the Ammo Connection ad at the bottom of the page to Wendy Mae's for mylar/oxygen absorbers.

[610Alpha]

Thanks for all the great info. I am going to be visiting the local restaurants to see which ones are willing to give me their food grade buckets!! I'll check out Wendy Mae's Simpler Living.

So for everyone out there here is the gist of this thread:
1. Don't waste your money on a vacuum sealer.
2. Don't use Dry Ice unless your one of those old timers that doesn't want to change his ways AND you know how to handle Dry Ice!!
3. Buy 5-7 mil mylar bags.
4. Get your food grade buckets from restaurants - usually for free!!
5. Buy Oxygen Absorbers.

If I have missed anything let me know and I will add it to the list. Sorry I like having lists.

[Fixer]

Good discussion all. One comment about this thread is that it started out with a simple inquiry of "which vacuum sealer" and thanks to the immense knowledge available on this group, the conversation expanded to include long term food storage. Good stuff to be sure.

That said, the summary completely dismissed the vacuum sealer. From a practical perspective, the discussion illustrated that a vacuum sealer is not the best solution for long term storage, however, the vacuum sealer has its place in preparations for mid-term storage (think after the short term canned goods and flour are gone from the kitchen pantry).

In an effort to live well for today and tomorrow, a vacuum sealer saves money by extending the "service-life" of fresh food, especially if you buy in bulk. (10 pork chops divided into 2-chop packages...you get the idea). Further, a vacuum sealer is essential when you get into small batch dehydration. When I am out on a trek or scouting the area most times I will carry my own mixes of dried and sealed food, like soups, seasonings, etc., rather than ripping into one of those oh-so-tasty MREs.

The vacuum sealer is just another tool in the toolbox. It can be useful by itself and even more so in conjunction with other tools. Of course, the most important tool is knowledge and how to apply it. We all have to make choices and determine trade offs so in this case, I humbly offer the lowly vacuum sealer for consideration in your preparations.

[Lowdown3]

Good points Fixer. It's like I've said before, we all talk/act out of our OWN PERSPECTIVE.

My perspective is to pack everything for the long term because of failures and wastes we have had over the years when we did go for shorter term packaging. The only thing we don't pack that way is our home production stuff- chicken, rabbit, fruits and veggies. This is almost all canned- glass jar water bath or pressure canned. Usually 400-500 quarts a season. The meat is normally frozen but ocassionally canned when freezer space is short.

[610Alpha]

Just wanted to give everyone a quick update, got my first Food Grade Bucket last night for FREE from my local grocery store Deli. It is a 4 gallon
Cherry pie filling bucket. Woo Hoo!! The guy looked at me a little funny when I asked him if he had any. I am going to have to use the Iron method for sealing mylar bags until I can get a heat sealer. Thanks to everyone for the great discussion!