post SHTF ice house?

[All Talk]

In the olden days in northern climes, they used to saw blocks of ice out of rivers and lakes, coat them in sawdust, and keep them through the summer in underground chambers, taking them out as needed. Good for temorary spoilable food preservation, medical uses, and let's face it, not bad in a glass of water come July.

I haven't seen anyone talk of this here. Looking at my homemade skating rink the other day it crossed my mind. If one had such a chamber, one could perhaps fill 5 gal buckets with water and leave outside in winter. When they frozer solid, take them into the chamber and stack them up (buckets eliminate the sawing project). If deep and/or insulated, that should work, shouldn't it?

{for those who want soemthing tidier, look at the "water brick" thread}

So, anyone know anything about this? How deep would you have to go, etc?

[EX121]

There is an old dairy in town where they did this. The walls are about 2ft thick brick & filled in between with sawdust/woodchips (or so I'm told), it's all above ground. There is also an old grain mill nearby where they flooded an area near the river and sold the ice to the railroad. There are some cool old pictures, but they don't really show how they cut the ice, etc.

Several years ago we lived remote for a couple of summers. We dug a pit about 3ft deep big enough to leave 1ft around our 40gt cooler. We placed the cooler in the hole and and filled around it with sawdust/woodchips. I then made a lid from plywood and a 2 in piece of rigid styrofoam. It was in the heavy shade and would keep a block of ice for almost 2 weeks. The ambient temprature was usually in the mid 80 daytime and 60s at night. The only problem was needing to knee on the grround to get stuff out of the cooler.

[PA_Prep]

If one had such a chamber, one could perhaps fill 5 gal buckets with water and leave outside in winter. When they frozer solid, take them into the chamber and stack them up (buckets eliminate the sawing project). If deep and/or insulated, that should work, shouldn't it?

Ice expands as it freezes. How strong are 5 gal buckets?

[JUSTIFIED]

Ya learn something new everyday! Thanks All Talk!

[kappydell]

I have plans for such a building in my archives. One essentially built a double-walled shed, with 2 feet between the walls. It was, of course, built in a shady spot, and preferably was partially buried. The roof was very well insulated, and the floor needed to have a drain, since there was some meltage. The plan I had recommended a concrete floor with a regular drain. The drainage went through a pipe to the adjoining 'spring' house where it ran thru a shallow trough in which items to be kept cold were placed. (The spring house was also insulated, often made of stone or concrete.) The trough was set up so as to allow a pool of ice water to trickle in constantly (ie, the overflow/outgoing drain for the trough was set high to allow for a pool to form). The wall spaces were filled with sawdust or clean chopped straw. When it was time to use the building, a floor layer of clean straw was put down, 2 ft deep; then the ice went atop that. It was supposed to be put in layers, with a 2-inch layer of clean straw or sawdust between each layer of ice (either to insulate or to keep them from sticking together with re-freezes). When you got to the top, another 2 to 3 ft layer of straw was put atop the ice pile. Ice was either sawed out of a local clean pond (some folks had special ponds) or was frozen in blocks created in metal forms (think bread pans) then turned out daily and re-filled. That would seem to be awfully slow, but if you had enough block forms you could make quite a few. 5-gal pails would need to be only partially filled to allow for expansion - dont know how long they would last, but if you had enough, you could indeed just stack them up. It would help with the meltage issue - it would just stay in the pails- but then you could not access the cold water for the spring house....Id probably put a tarp between the ice and the insulation but that is just me.

If you are good with tarps and have enough of them, I see no reason you would even need a 2nd wall to retain your insulation- just stack the ice (or pails) 2 ft from the outer wall, tarp well, and stuff with straw.

[All Talk]

Ice expands as it freezes. How strong are 5 gal buckets?

You're right. I didn't plan to fill them all the way up, and I'd keep the lids off while they were freezing (thos cover with a tarp to keep leaves and such out). I beliive ice is about 90% as dense as liquid water, so I'd fill them to the 4.5 gallon mark.

[All Talk]

Kappydell,

Thanks, good info. It makes a big difference that it doesn't necessarily have to be undergound, although i see how partial drop would hlep quait a bit.

Never thought of the spring house -- my pails would interfere.

Another issue with pails, now that I see your description, is that you'd have to suff the spaces between with straw, too. Squares allow ice to cool ice, so to speak.