Rifles

[biathlon]

For me practice is the single most important aspect of being prepared with my rifle. I am a big fan of the 308/7.62 nato primarily because I can practice all day without developing a flinch. Massive amounts of proven load data and tons of surplus brass and projectiles.

[Klayton]

LOL Matt I just realized in the powerpoint he calls it a .223mm Now that is one SMALL ROUND!! hehe

[Matt In Oklahoma]

hahahaha yep for sure

[Davar]

My farthest kill shot was about 350yrds at a bull elk downhill with a pump 30-06. My uncle who is a 300 win mag guy makes fun of my rifle calling it a "menanite machine gun". So far it has killed 4 elk and 4 whitetale. It's not a 1,000yrd rifle, but it's not bad around 300-400yrds. Consumerism is prevalant everywhere these days. It seems that if you don't have the most current gear, you are not goig to preform as well. I think it's like most things. The tools help, but the knowhow and the application of the tool makes the difference.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Hot Damn Matt! Just found a thread online saying their is a 1,200 yd confirmed kill with a 5.56mm!!! But they used specialty ammo, whatever the hell that is.(((Damn I hate nights I cannot sleep)))

Gonna revive this because i read something that got me thinking
May edition of the NRA's American Rifleman pg74 with Jim Gilliand a U.S. Army Sniper interviewed for the making of Ultimate Sniper 3 from Palidin Press
"Gilliand used a suppressed 5.56mm NATO rifle in Iraq, firing Mark262, Black Hills 77gr Open Tipped Match ammunition. With this combination, he recorded kills up to 750 meters away"

Now I'm no way in any shape or form as good as any of these men feature in this but it is good to know that it can be accomplished with practice, gear and training. Now to find me an extended range and have some fun!

[rice paddy daddy]

In Army basic in 1968 our rifle was the M14, training and qualification was done on pop up silhouette targets at ranges of 50 meters to 500 meters.
Iron sights. I had no problem hitting at 500 meters and qualified Expert. Nothing unusual, many many, other soldiers did also.
My stateside issue rifle in an artillery unit was the M14 as well. During POR training in 1969 (Prior to Overseas Replacement) I was given 2 weeks training with the M16A1, I don't remember the target distances during qualification. No Expert this time, Sharpshooter instead.
Today I'm the proud owner of a Springfield M1A built with USGI parts, but have no desire to own an AR.

[xdpatriot]

750 I can buy, but 1200? I don't think so scooter.

[Grand58742]

Don't know about a kill at 1200 yards (roughly 1100 meters), but I did run into a guy who saw Sgt Sheri Gallagher shoot an M16 (very heavily modified lol) at 1000 meters in a demo. Said she was dead on. He said he couldn't recall her name, but remembered she was on the Army Marksmanship Unit and was heading to Camp Perry. Later I realized she was the same person the guy was talking about. Provided she didn't use the 5.56 at Perry, but even for a demo, shooting a 5.56 at 1000 meters? And hitting a target consistently at that range? It's more of a lob rather than a shot. But the dude was seriously impressed and that's saying a lot for an SF soldier assigned to an ODA.

Leech Cup and Wimbledon Cup both have 5.56/.223 competitors and they are thousand yard matches. Wouldn't imagine why someone couldn't make a kill shot at that distance. Provided it would have to be a fairly lucky shot since there probably is rarely enough energy left in the round at that distance to be efficient, but who knows? Maybe not the best choice for a long range caliber, but at the same time, I'd rather not be shot at to find out for certain if it had enough energy left over lol

[jmsneorrcom]

Its a moot point for me I can only see about 100-200 yards anyways

[BioG8r]

The argument is heated and the facts are supporting both sides. I am NOT going to take a chance on the 1,200 yard signaling of the bad guys. I will wait till I know it will be the very last sound they functionally hear. 500 yds on the ABSOLUTE VERY OUTSIDE! It will still be a hard shot and even harder to make count 100%. Most of us are going to be very comfortable making the 100 to 200 yarder. Most any of the weapons in discussion will be adequate. I do however fear the 1,000 yd incoming from a better hidden, practiced foe.

[rice paddy daddy]

Personally, if the bad guys are 1200 yards away and don't know I'm there I'm going to slip away and live another day.

[SeldomSeenSlim]

A lot of it is dependent on your environment. Out here there are places where it's knee high scrub brush for miles and miles. Doesn't leave much to hide behind. I've taken much longer shots on game out west than in the east simply because visibility is so high there's no way to close the distance any more. I don't go for the whole "Best of the West" thing trying to make long shots, but 300+ yards is fairly common on big game out in the flats.

When it comes to gun fights I'm a huge fan of not getting in one no matter what the range is. The good thing about all the visibility here is that it's usually pretty easy to see things way farther than a rifle can shoot.

[MartyRed]

Personally, if the bad guys are 1200 yards away and don't know I'm there I'm going to slip away and live another day.

Sounds like a good plan RPD

[ebb]

I am not sure about all this slipping away, my running and gunning days if i ever had any are over. I you live in a climate where you need heat in the winter to survive, your smoke can be seen for miles. Now i know you could lite up after dark and hope its out by daylight. but sooner or later you will be seen. I belive if i have to bug out my long range guns will be hidden and left behind. I will carry an AR15 and a long barrel ruger 22 pistol with a scope for hunting small game. My wife will carry her AR15 and a bow of her choice ( she is a national champion archer ). But walking away and leaving my home and all my preps will be last choice. If i stay and the neighbors help watch a trails and streets in to the neighbor hood the long barreled guns will be my go to guns.If you only fire one shot and move for the follow up and know your AO you might make it a while. But if i have to get into a shoot out i want it to be a long way off if i can set the terms.

[rice paddy daddy]

IF there is a big enough societal collapse to bring about anarchy, we will most likely be isolated from that to a large degree.
Our little farm is our bug out location, we are already here.
We worked hard, did without, and prayed to be able to own a place like this out past the end of the blacktop. I am prepared to defend it, and this is as good enough place to die as any.