Body Armor

[protus]

This sort of thing is exactly why I left another preparedness forum after a number of years and a whole lot of posts. It's why I just stuck my toe back in the water by joining this forum after several years away from any kind of preparedness forum activity rather than diving back in. After sticking my toe in the water, I realize that the water is still quite cold. I'm now shifting into "lurker mode". There is much to learn here, but I can see it's better to just "listen" than to "speak".

it's also better at times to pick your words vs going right into verbal assault mode.
cussing/name calling is something we do not allow here. especially in the manner we've seen in the past attacks (not necessarily F4F) and with the comments above in this thread. While the OP may have been egged on and got some off the rocker comments , his escalation of force per say wasn't warranted. Those comments are typical of places like Ar15's General discussion forum, which even then,,as liberal as they are with allowing name calling,cussing etc only let it go so far before their admins/mods lock it down.

There is no need to go into "lurk" mode or whatever. There has been worse outbreaks by people who refuse to read the rules or deal with their issues in a civil mature manor in the public forums or via email/pm . Many of the other forums out there do not nor try to promote that. Call it a culture shock if you've come from a forum like to one which doesn't allow such shenanigans....


besides that any issues anyone has would be better addressed via an email/pm to the admin's here on the forums.This way any specific issues can be handled vs derailing the thread any more.

[1Admin]

Hell when I first looked at the thread weeks ago, knowing Wise and how he is, I saw it as them messing around- i.e. joking with the guy.

Wrong doing was probably done by XD and Wiseowl in their first answers, but is that a reason to call someone "a$$hat" "a$$clown" and one other a$$ reference? THAT is what Spock popped F4F for.

Also, that guy sent me a little crybaby email with a bunch of insinuations, attacks on the site here, etc.

I'm not impressed by someone who after 10 posts, four or five of them are "a$$hat", "a$$clown" "little boy ....."

Attack the IDEA, debate the IDEA, not make personal attacks. Once you make it personal, it shows your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. Guys gonna share something here- I cuss in person pretty bad, not vulgar stuff, but I've been known to drop the F bomb a time or three.... However you shouldn't allow that on public forums wherein your words are there forever.

Debate the IDEA, attack the concept/idea if you believe it false, stupid, etc. We do that all the time. But once you start calling names and THEN emailing/taletelling to the principal at elementary school that OTHERS were rude to you (all the while your calling them a$$ thing and A$$ that openly), then THAT is not right.

The ones that usually have nothing or little to offer are the ones that always tell you what they WOULD have done, blah blah blah. Heard it before pal, can't tell you how many times in 39 years...

Was wrong doing done by XD and Wise? If they weren't messing around with him, maybe. I'll leave this thread open for them to chime in, they are both honorable guys IMO.

But their is NO DOUBT that wrongdoing was done by F4F- we've left it up for all to see.

Spock banned F4F because of the cussing personal attacks, I want to be clear on this.

Guys, we aren't going to always agree on stuff, sometimes all of us (myself included) have a thin skin, etc. but it's the manner we respond to things that makes us who we are- debate the idea, attack the concept, etc. but no personal attacks.

[Spock]

re opened for discussion

[tarheelsman71]

http://www.ar500armor.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29794

Not affiliated in any way, but their videos speak for themselves, and the price is right. I used to think that steel was dangerous because of shrapnel flying off, but the rhino lining solved that problem. Handles up to .308 and can take multiple hits and still be serviceable. Not that I plan on getting hit multiple times! There are videos (ar500's and some independent reviewers) that take a plate carrier, insert the plates, and shoot them ALOT, and then show you the damage to the plate carriers rhino lined vs plain steel. Huge difference.

and for the record...I am an arsehat!

[1Admin]

Sorry about that, I didn't realize the thread was already locked when I posted above yesterday morning, I was a bit "under the weather" yesterday, my apologies.

Spock unlocked the thread as I didn't see it was closed. So if anyone wants to chime in, feel free to.

I'd like to reiterate one thing- their was wrong done on both sides between several posters, I don't personally feel any of that was worth a name calling personal rant- OR 3 OR 4 OF THEM. Their was a million and 1 other ways to reply or handle it. Spock banned F4F because of his cussing personal attacks on 3 members here, I stand by his call in banning F4F.

Do some of us need to have a little more patient with new member sometimes? Hey we are all guilty of that at times also. However the onus is also on the new folks to kinda learn/recognize the culture- whether it's a new group they are joining, a forum, heck a new church even.

I could tell you some horror stories of guys that have come into the gym, into classes that talked a lot of smack, I remember one younger guy that before he even stepped in the gym was telling everyone he could beat our instructor. With 10' drop ceilings I remember watching that guys toes scrap the ceiling and he was thrown on his butt! Heck I've watched similar happen with 10 and 12 year old's. A new kid comes in, talks some smack, maybe even beats one of the newer kids, then one of our little pit bulls are sic'ed on him and they smash the guy three or four times in a row. How could either party avoided the beatdown? Keeping their mouth shut early on and learning the culture first. Or simply coming in, working a bit and then saying "hey do you mind if I spar with you tonight?" Then at least when they lost they would have lost with dignity- no one expects the new person to know much, definitely not everything. It never hurts to display a humble attitude when your new :)

Folks that have been to private training I offer, the campouts, etc. will tell you I'm very laid back, kinda shy in person. When it's time to teach anything I am familiar with, it's another story. But that confidence has been born of decades of work, training, etc. Even then, you have to read and learn the CULTURE first and yes often times you have to deal with "that guy" who wants to think a simple takeaway won't work on him cause he's super strong, or the guy that took one knife training class and simply just wants to spar but quickly ends up on his butt ;) When you train or teach people, you want them to excel but they should in return show some respect and be humble in their learning.


Folks please feel free to chime in or start a new thread in Registered members if you feel like you need to weigh in on this.

[1Admin]

http://www.ar500armor.com/index.php?...oduct_id=29794

Not affiliated in any way, but their videos speak for themselves, and the price is right. I used to think that steel was dangerous because of shrapnel flying off, but the rhino lining solved that problem. Handles up to .308 and can take multiple hits and still be serviceable. Not that I plan on getting hit multiple times! There are videos (ar500's and some independent reviewers) that take a plate carrier, insert the plates, and shoot them ALOT, and then show you the damage to the plate carriers rhino lined vs plain steel. Huge difference.

and for the record...I am an arsehat!

Thanks for the link.

Spall happens. I shoot a lot of steel targets made of this same material up close- sometimes 3-5 years. Yes I know your not supposed to. :) Worse spall problem I've seen was at a greater distance and it was a small chip just barely into the skin of the arm.

I would definitely have some decent eye protection when wearing any type of armor like this.

I will say this, the original Level IV plates I bought from Silent Partner in the 90's weigh about twice as much and are at least twice as thick as any of these AR500 plates people are selling now.

[ibetiny]

I received a set of armor plates last week. But I do have kind of a dumb question that I don't want to ask my friends for fear of sounding stupid. (I'm not really that stupid, I just have never worked with plate armor before.) When I insert my plates into the carrier, they ride real low in the pouch, low enough that the top of the plate is about 3 or 4 inches below where the neck meets the ribcage. When I slide it all the way in there is about 4 inches of pouch left in the bottom. The plate carrier says size 10X12 and thats what plate I got, but front and back is the same. There are no internal straps. Any ideas?

[protus]

I received a set of armor plates last week. But I do have kind of a dumb question that I don't want to ask my friends for fear of sounding stupid. (I'm not really that stupid, I just have never worked with plate armor before.) When I insert my plates into the carrier, they ride real low in the pouch, low enough that the top of the plate is about 3 or 4 inches below where the neck meets the ribcage. When I slide it all the way in there is about 4 inches of pouch left in the bottom. The plate carrier says size 10X12 and thats what plate I got, but front and back is the same. There are no internal straps. Any ideas?

Well...sides adjusting.g ride hieght on you...you could sew the bottom up closer so the plates ride at the height you need. Is your carrier a know gear maker or something like condor /ctd /lapg stuff (lower end gear) .

[ibetiny]

Voodoo Tactical. I thought that stuff was supposed to be good stuff but while looking for a tag I saw those dreaded words "Made In China". I might have to give this set to the wife and start over. (She will not be expected to use it as hard as I will be). The inside of the pouch is plastic lined, I suppose so that the water can run out of the grommets in the bottom.

[1Admin]

I have a couple mid grade plate carriers and some "Condor" plate carriers. To me the Condor ones aren't bad for the price.

Have the same issue with the plates as you do ibetiny.

Why can't someone make a plate big enough to cover all that? I was thinking the SAPI plates that are sized, like for the IBA's might be the way to go. Get an XL plate or whatever the largest is that fits in your carrier.

Some some ceramic plates in the boy's vest but he will soon be big enough to go with steel. Then the ceramics will go in his Mom's or maybe in car doors.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

a little different area of coverage

http://armorednutshellz.com/

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

Matt,
Would you think that the nutshellz could possibly direct the round into a femoral artery? As much as I wouldn't want to be struck there by a round, I wonder what the odds would be? That is only about 1% of the body surface area (no jokes here, keep it clean). I have always thought that the lower abdominal and pelvic areas would be a greater chance of a strike. In a SHTF scenario, a gut shot would be a death sentence unless you have quick access to a surgical suite and a lot of antibiotics. A ripped intestine won't do well without treatment.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[xdpatriot]

Gunshows are a good place to get armor. This is a good carrier, I've used a couple.

https://www.mercworx.com/

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Matt,
Would you think that the nutshellz could possibly direct the round into a femoral artery? As much as I wouldn't want to be struck there by a round, I wonder what the odds would be? That is only about 1% of the body surface area (no jokes here, keep it clean). I have always thought that the lower abdominal and pelvic areas would be a greater chance of a strike. In a SHTF scenario, a gut shot would be a death sentence unless you have quick access to a surgical suite and a lot of antibiotics. A ripped intestine won't do well without treatment.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

If you get hit there you will bleed out too because the artery runs under there
I would think a lot of energy would be absorbed as well

[Matt In Oklahoma]

I'd like to add that I think that IF you KNOW that you are going into a fight or one is coming to you then armor everything you can to include thighs, groin, head etc.
Keep your emotions and professional thoughts and judgements out of the next question. Why was the LA Bank Robbery so successful in regards to the fact they were not immediately stopped? 2 guys held out for a long time against hundreds of Officers and never traveled more than a few blocks and not at a rapid speed.
Proper Armor
What was the one failure? IMPROPER ARMOR
They left one area exposed, the head

Has anyone here trained the "body armor" drill? Where is the 4th shot placement? The groin to break the pelvic. Even competition shooters do this in matches so everyone knows to try it.

I give less than a hoot about these coolio ninja schools that run around with nothing more than a small chest plate acting like center mass hits are all that will be absorbed which is complete nonsense because they can't even make solid center mas hits under duress 100 percent of the time so how is a BG gonna do it that doesn't train?
This tells me the level of fights they have been in and the training they have because they were taught in a manner in which they were thought to be expendable. They travel light cause they are ninja and for the purposes of most of us being survivalist/preppers - Bugging In I am not a ninja sneaking up on folks I am the folk they are trying to sneak up on. As bad as most of you hate them (and/or me) look to SWAT in both the streets and corrections and why they are successful in their mission in regards to armor. They can teach you more than the tabbed ninjas for your purposes. Going out manhunting is going to be a very small portion of what you are doing in survival outside of patrols and from what has been posted and shown here in pictures here very very dang few of you have any size of an area to "patrol" but most have something to hold.

Again look to LA and the riots. The shop owners donned any piece of armor they could get to defend what was theirs in a SHTF event. I saw a hodgepodge of helmets and vests that didn't fit. They even wore dust masks for the smoke and gloves for sharp pieces of metal and glass strewn around, anything to protect themselves.

When you think of armor think of your mission, are you working in the field? Then it will probably be laying somewhere near. Are you on guard duty at the homestead? Then most of it should be on cause you will probably be struck first if the attacker has 1/2 a brain. If you are in a vehicle on supply convoy then you are a huge target get all of it on because even if you dismount you wont be running far and this stuff is easier to take off then put on. If you are on patrol then maybe a chest plate is all you can carry for the distance and heat.

None of this is new, just look at 15th century knight armor, samurai armor and so on and see that both the groin and thighs were protected. Only recent man with their so called superior minds believe they don't need armor there.


The military woke up and realized that we were losing a lot to groin strikes a while back

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/military/2011-02-03-1Aieds03_ST_N.htm

there many more articles to support this as well but you get the point