PTR 91, FAL, Vepr 7.62x54r

[Not_Yet_Prepped]

I have been looking for Hunting Rifle that would work as a decent MBR if times required it.

I am currently really interested in PTR 91s and Vepr 7.62x54r and FALs have always had my attention.

I am looking for something that is 2 MOA. I dont have the time nor the money to do the training required to reach a level of accuracy in field conditions where I could notice the difference between 1 MOA and 2 MOA.

I am looking for any one with experance with any of the above rifles and any current links for locations to buy any of the above rifles.

By the Way am leaning towards the Vepr do to cost of AMMO. I am mean 440 rounds for $80.00 is hard to beat.

PTR 91s
+Lots of Spare Parts
+Mags are cheap
+Very Accurate
+Newer Models are reliable

-Purchase Cost
-Ammo Cost


Vepr
+AK Based so very Reliable
+Ammo Cheap
+Less Expensive that the other 2
+More than Accurate Enough

-Mag Cost
-AK based so Ergo's suck


FN FAL
+All around Great Rifle

-Cost
-Mag Cost
-Optics may be hard to fit (not sure)
-Ammo Cost

[WILL]

I'd get a good AR-10 in .308 cal with a 16 in barrel. The lighter weight, ergonomics and rails make it stand out in this category.

[Not_Yet_Prepped]

I love the Ergo's of the AR platform but unlike the AR-15 platform, the AR-10s do not have a "Standard" so parts and mags become a problem (at least as far as I know). DPMS parts do not fit Armalite's. And then you have the biggest factor COST.

[WILL]

I'm not understanding the parts argument your making. The way people talk about parts, you'd think rifle bolts were randomly snapping in half all over the place. That's just not true. If you’re real worried about it, stock a few parts at home. Furthermore, I don't think scavenging parts for a VEPR, FAL or PTR 91 will be any easier than for an AR-10. Besides, if you did have a broken gun, and miraculously found another gun of the same make, wouldn't the functional found gun simply replace your broken one? What are the odds of finding another broken gun of the same make as yours anyhow? Probably pretty low, unless you're carrying a hugely popular gun (which no .308 battle rifle is). Scavenging for ammo seems like a more likely scenario, so I'd stick with popular calibers. Anyhow, you're right that the AR-10 is more money. Good luck with your choice.

[Not_Yet_Prepped]

The Parts this is just a "plus". I aggree in PAW I dont think finding any parts will be easy for any rifle. But FAL and G3's/clones have been around for along time and have been issued as service rifles around the world. So there are LOTS of those rifles out there making it "slightly" more likely than any AR-10... But also makes currently finding mags and weapon specific accesories easier today.

But the big thing is TOTAL COST. So I need purchase the rifle, then set it up (mags/optics/accessories) and FEED it. POST PAW ammo will be hard to find so the stock we build now is of utmost importance. I can today buy the 7.62x54r at 0.20 a round after taxes but the .308 is closer to 0.70 a round after taxes.

So say I want 10 mags and 2000 rounds and a rifle w/optics to have a complete package.

2000 Rounds of .308 = $1,400
2000 Rounds of 7.62x54r = $400

So then cost of Mags
Vepr $30.00 x 10 = $300
PTR $3.00 x 10 = $30
FAL/AR10 $25 x 10 = $250

So this is why I was thinking:
#1. VEPR is less than $1800 total package
#2. PTR is running around $2700 total package
#3. FAL/AR-10 is well outside of my price range when considering complete package

So I hoping to get some places to look for better prices for the different Rifles and their Mags. To hopefully change the math I would rather have AR10 than PTR... And I would rather have PTR than a VEPR. But the math shows me that the VEPR is really the only choice unless I can find a better place to get the rifle and the ammo.

[Grand58742]

Some personal observations of the PTR from a former owner's perspective:

It is highly accurate, mags are cheap and parts...not as readily available as you might think. However, the ergonomics suck. It's a heavy s-ucker (don't understand why the filters are banning that word lol) even without optics and getting rapid reloading down with that forward charging handle is not easy. The trigger is typically horrid on base line models. PTR has come a long way with their models and they are more reliable now than they were. The JLD marked receivers were the best in the Alpha serial numbers, but they are few and far between these days. I liked shooting mine, but frankly, had to give it the boot as it wasn't as user friendly as I might have liked.

An AR10 is not going to run you much more than a PTR or a FAL clone will...unless you get into the high end models. But magazine wise...AR10s take two distinct types of mags, the AR10 pattern which fits into Armalite, Rock River and some others and the SR-25 pattern which fits into Knights, DPMS, Bushmaster, Larue, Remington and others. Magpul makes a pretty good mag for the SR-25 pattern which is relatively inexpensive. But parts, for the most part, are parts. Springs and whatnot are pretty standard across the board. There isn't going to be a whole lot of aftermarket switches (okay, I say that and chuckle) you will need to make, but for the most part receivers are fairly standard.

Overall, I'd have you lean towards an AR platform as well. I have no experience with the FAL outside of a mag at the range one time. I was fairly giddy about it at the time since it was a cool new gun to shoot, but didn't find anything special to write home to Mom about in retrospect. I haven't shot the VEPR either, but I do have experience with the AK system and it is reliable. But it also comes down to ammo choices. Yes, it is cheap but selections are fairly limited especially in the hunting calibers. And mags are going to run a pretty good chunk of change as well and you are limited to 10 rounds. Buying cheap bulk ammo is fine for blasting, but for hunting...not much ballistics that have been done. However, the .308 has been tested, both in labs and in real world applications, to death (no pun intended) and continues to perform above expectations.

Shoot, just go for the gold and get a Larue Tactical OBR and scope it out with a Nightforce. I mean, if you're going to go big, go big or go home lol. :p

Now here's another option to throw at you. Buy a standard AR15 in 5.56. Get a spare upper in 6.8 SPC. Works fine for deer sized animals and on down. That way you can bulk out on relatively cheap ammo in .223/5.56 and still have a more reliable upper for hunting and not have to buy in bulk. Swapping uppers takes all of fifteen seconds and zero typically shouldn't be affected. You end up having two rifles for the price of one and you are intimately familiar with the controls. And ARs are typically standard across the world so aftermarket parts are going to be work across the board.

[Not_Yet_Prepped]

HMMM I have an old Colt AR-15... Had not thought about the 6.8 SPC!

[Grand58742]

I see you posted while I was typing my reply...far too often I see and hear of trade offs in the gun world of "it might not be as good, but at least I have it in my hands" argument. Like buying a Hi Point pistol. Sure it'll get the job done, but is it the best choice? In my opinion, I'd say save up a few pennies more and get what you want from the start. While the VEPR might be a good stopgap measure, it might not be ideal. And I do understand economics and I understand some folks might not be able to buy that high end Larue topped off with a Nightforce and feed it without taking out a second mortgage on their house. But overall, there are cheaper alternatives to high end ARs that are relatively affordable.

If you want cheap training ammo in a .308, look at the Russian animal brands. Brings down the price to "reasonable" as opposed to "holy crap!" Nothing wrong with steel case ammo for training. Maybe not the best choice for self defense, but firing up a couple of hundred rounds will not break your wallet at $200 per 500 round half case (SGAmmo and J&G Sales have the Russian stuff in stock).

Nothing personal, but be wary of penny wise and pound foolish. Sometimes trading off capabilities of a great caliber and rifle for a so-so caliber and rifle because of price might not be the best option. Nothing against the 7.62x54 cartridge as it's been killin folks for a long time now and is capable, but availability of modern ammunition for it just isn't that spectacular. The .308 on the other hand...

If you are dead set on the .308, I'd say save your pennies and dollars and buy what you want up front.

[jimmycthemd]

If you are dead set on the .308, I'd say save your pennies and dollars and buy what you want up front.

OK, this is speaking from a cheapskate point of view not only in the weapons arena, but life in general. When I've gone cheap on something I use a lot, I've regretted it. I usually start out buying the inferior 'tool' to save a few dollars in the short run. In the long run, I sell the cheapie and buy the one I wanted in the first place and the price has gone up.

A couple of exceptions:

1) Have to have the 'tool' NOW as there's a critical job to do and I have a limited budget.

2) I'm absolutely sure it's a one-time use.

Bottom line is, if you can wait, save up for the one you REALLY want.

[Not_Yet_Prepped]

Larue... YES... I wish... I really like:

http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-obr-optimized-battle-rifle-complete-762-rifle-18-barrel

[Grand58742]

Larue... YES... I wish... I really like:
http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-t...ifle-18-barrel

And don't forget:

http://www.laruetactical.com/nightforce-35-15-x-50mm-mlr-zero-stop-miliradian-ffp-nxs1550-and-lt104-mount-sold-combo

and

http://www.laruetactical.com/harris-bipod-brm-and-larue-tactical-lt130-qd-mount

And

http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-padded-sling

And a BUIS system:

http://www.laruetactical.com/troy-hk-style-front-rear-sight-combo

And the mags of course:

http://www.laruetactical.com/magpul-pmag-20-lr-20-round-762mm

Might as well slap all the shipping together.

I mean, who needs a house, right? :D

[kihnspiracy]

Sig 716. Gas operated, accurate, uses PMags. About half the price of a LaRue OBR.

[Benn Gleck]

Get the PTR.

Ergonomics are not that big of a deal if you train with your rifle.

I have an HK 91 and have trained with it for years.

Get the rifle and take some classes.

[556x45]

get the real deal a m1a

[Tackleberry]

I'll put my 2 cents in for the .308 over the 6.8 because there are plenty of .308's in America. It's a proven round both on the battlefield and on opening day for mule deer, whitetail, elk, antelope, hogs, etc. Reloading the .308 is super easy and you have a wiiiiiiiide range of powders, bullet weights & types to choose from.