Quality ammo vs target/cheap stuff

[Georgia_Boy]

I have learned a good lesson late in life. In both quantity and quality I have mis-used valuable dollars in my ammo storage. Whether it is centerfire or rimfire cheap ammo generally has much poorer accuracy and repeatability than more costly stuff. I have very little match ammo and I am not too sad about that but I wish my stocks had less Wolf stuff and more 'name brand'.
As an example I can shoot so much more accurately with, say, Gold Dots than White Box or 3rd world stuff. I think my wargun ammo would do more bodily damage if the bullets were boat tail hollow points than FMJs. And yet in the past 10-12 years of seriously stocking up, I 'saved' money by going for more quantity than quality. When I think of the range time wasted with just average to poor quality stuff I know that I learned less about each weapon that I practiced with, especially when practicing real life activities rather than just punching paper. Punching paper is fun but at my age and physical condition when I practice, getting of the X, drawing, aiming, and shooting 2 or 3 rounds I want to know really how well I did or how bad it was. I'd never know with target or cheap ammo if the results were me or the rounds themselves. As a specific example I mostly have shot 9mm target stuff but 6 months ago I shot 250 124gr and 147gr Gold Dots and I was surprised at how much better this pistol had magically improved. My experience repeated with .45 and 38spl rounds. The better ammo yielded better results. I no longer had to think (too much anyway) about the flyaways. So I will save the cheaper stuff for kids/grandkids to kill paper with and then show them the difference with (fewer!) quality rounds. I can't wait ot get some of the new Critical Duty stuff that Hornady announced at the 1st of the year (IIRC). My local stores have been unable to get any yet. I have liked the Critical Defense that Hornady has had out for awhile.
A long post but does your shooting show the differences?

[1Admin]

Can definitely see a difference, especially at distances.

Anyone make any "don't have to take a mortgage out on the house" match 7.62x39 that's any good?

Would like to see better groups at 300 with Kalashnikov's Machine.

[Grand58742]

I do see a difference in "premium" rounds versus cheap bulk ammo. Having said that, there is a role in having said bulk cheap ammo for training. But it's a trade off in having enough rounds for training and being proficient versus enough rounds to give a person a warm fuzzy feeling about good groupings and not training enough. It's more individual based I would think as some can be perfectly proficient with 500 rounds a year practice and others still have a hard time hitting the barn with 5000 rounds. For those that don't need as much, shooting premium rounds isn't a bank breaker deal. For those that need the extra practice, yeah, cheap ammo certainly has it's place to drive the fundamentals home. Cheaper ammo drives more rounds. More rounds drives fundamentals. Better fundamentals drive accuracy in the long run with both cheap and (more so) premium ammo.

Side rant...One thing I see people get all caught up in is "accuracy" potential of ammo. I've heard people poo-poo on Golden Saber because "it's not that accurate!" so to speak because in the gun rags testing it generally doesn't get groups better than 2 inches or so. Now two inches at 25 yards from a weapon that typically has a 50 yard effective range? So four inches at 50 yards on a target that has a human heart that's 5.5 inches wide? Plenty enough for most work. Matt uses Winchester Rangers (IIRC) as his premium carry ammo, but I seriously doubt if he was at my place and we were being overrun by the mass Chinese hordes he would start waving his pinkie finger in the air and ranting about how much Golden Saber wasn't accurate if I tossed him a box for reloading. So I do use a "less than surgically" accurate rounds than other brands in testing (the very same magazines that fire from a bench rest, slow firing at 25 yards and has a big full page add for the more accurate premium ammo two pages over). Biggest thing is, having training ammo to drive the fundamentals home in practice and premium stuff for when it counts.

Russian animal brands (tigers, bears, wolves, oh my!) aren't bad for training, especially high round count classes and training within a set distance. For longer range stuff (200 yards+) the name brands will shine more. So my opinion would be having a mix of same and use both, although one being more limited due to cost. End of rant.

To answer the original question, yes, better ammo does tend to show how more accurate one can be.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Matt uses Winchester Rangers (IIRC) as his premium carry ammo, but I seriously doubt if he was at my place and we were being overrun by the mass Chinese hordes he would start waving his pinkie finger in the air and ranting about how much Golden Saber wasn't accurate if I tossed him a box for reloading.

my pinkie only comes up for tea drinking, the chinese hoardes are underserving
Premium is more accurate SOMETIMES. You have to know that weapon. I carry the win rangers in my G17 and Remington +p in my G26 for combined accuracy, penetration and expansion. That being said i shoot alot of tula pistol junk at small targets and extended ranges just fine and most shooters i know are outclassed by their ammo. Rifles there may a big difference depending on target size and distance but again i shoot junk stuff all the time with no issues.
There are very few shots i've ever made that can truly be blamed for the "ammo" quality

[thedreamers]

I use the cheap stuuf all the time for practice and have the good stuff for when its needed like most people. That being said if you practice with the cheaper stuff and you get good at it, its still going to do just as much damage as the good stuff. Like Grand had said some people complain about groupings, I dont care who you are, if you get hit in the chest or head and you have a 6in spread your going down died or dieing. At 7shoots bieng the smallest rds in a handgun (6rd revolver) and 10rd in a rifle thats alots lead. Most people carry larger mags or multi.

[onebigelf]

Pretty much the same as the rest of you. Aside from the Wolf for the AK, which I just don't see spending the $$ for better ammo for, I have practice ammo and I have Stockpile ammo. Teh stockpile stuff is better ammo for the most part. In .308 it's the hunting bullets, the AP, the 168 BTMHP, the 155 scenar. In the same in .223. Most of my stockpile ammo is 68 and 69 gr BTM or 60 gr SP. The 55 and 62 gr FMJ is practice and class ammo. For the 9mm, ALL of the stock ammo is HP. The ball is practice ammo in boxer cases. It's so close to the cost of reloading it myself that I think it wiser to buy my practice ammo and call it obtaining brass ;-)
The .22 I shoot bulk stuff. The Federal 550 packs shoot so well out of my guns I don't see the point in more expensive stuff in large quantity.

John

[MartyRed]

macht nichts

Expensive vs cheap ammo. Can the gun run and or shoot that ammo? Are you wanting paper plate accuracy or nats nuts precision? If it feeds and does not jam the weapons then the accuracy can be with the shooter. I will not put high zuit ammo in my ex Russian 3rd world war gun either. What ever I can get that gun to eat and spit at POA as close to 1 MOA, that is what I will use. Ammo price is of ZERO consequence as I can reload if I am not happy with factory offerings or prices. Which since I started buying ammo it has gone up around a gazillion% :( Like food I buy a little every week. You will never be sorry to have an extra box of ammo, if you are then your not someone who needs ammo or weapons anyways! The worst ammo in your gun is better then the best ammo you left on the store shelf. :rolleyes:

[Bearman202]

I generally agree that cheap is fine, because mostly I'm plinking anyway, but I got a rude surprise lately. I bought a brick of the Super X stuff, in .22, and the first time I went out with it I got three duds in the first four mags. I like to shoot .22, because it's fun an cheap. I was underwhelmed by this stuff. Of course, I bought a whole brick of it. I had it at a friend's house, and he was getting duds from a box of Remmington Golden Points. I think the quality control is gone now, so no matter what you're getting you're taking a chance. One of the reasons I bought a Czech AK clone is that they were built to shoot the steel case stuff. This thing goes bang no matter what I put in it, and ejects it, so I'm not going to complain. I'm not doing match shooting with it, so what's the big deal? For the duds, THAT is a big deal, and I'm going to keep the CCI and Stingers for hunting, but for plinking, I'll probably keep using the cheap stuff.

[BioG8r]

Some of my guns will fire cheap stuff with no issues, I have my ammo boxes labled with caliber and gun, it was better than tossing the crap I had purchased. I now purchase for use. I dont waste good quality (money) for plinking, practicing or teaching the youngsters about the basics. Sighting in, security and hunting gets the best. Storage gets what is neccessary.

[rice paddy daddy]

Bearman, maybe you just got a bad lot of Super X 22LR. I find the 40 grain solids in the 50 round silver colored box to be the most accurate in most of my rifles and handguns.
I buy bulk boxes of 22LR for plinking, and keep CCI Velocitors, CCI Stingers, and Remington Yellow Jackets for pest control, the Super X for fine work.
Center fire handgun - keep 'em loaded with premium, practice with cheap.
Center fire rifle - depends on the particular rifle what I keep in stock, but things like my 30-30, 22 Hornet, etc, get hunting ammo. Especially the few guns that are scoped - those rounds are the same as what was zero'd.

For all around farm carry Ruger Single Six loaded with Winchester 22 mag Dyna Points & a 410 single shot with 3" #6 birdshot.

[SeldomSeenSlim]

I handload most of my ammo and I tend to stick with one load for everything. I don't make cheap practice rounds and something else for hunting/protection. Just one solid load for each caliber. KISS method.

[Bearman202]

[QUOTE=rice paddy daddy;39490]Bearman, maybe you just got a bad lot of Super X 22LR. I find the 40 grain solids in the 50 round silver colored box to be the most accurate in most of my rifles and handguns.
I buy bulk boxes of 22LR for plinking, and keep CCI Velocitors, CCI Stingers, and Remington Yellow Jackets for pest control, the Super X for fine work.
Center fire handgun - keep 'em loaded with premium, practice with cheap.


I agree. The only slight disagreement is about practicing with cheap, and that's only because I've seen that your aim point changes depending on the ammo. That can make a difference at distance, but not so much at close range. I don't know if I got a bad batch or what. It's in a white box, if that tells you anything. I noticed that in some of it, the bullet is actually loose in the case. I don't know if those are the ones that are dudding out or not. (Not paying that much attention.) Having said that, I would rather get a dud than a squib. Been there, done that, and the shooting ends for that day with that weapon.

[rice paddy daddy]

The bulk white box Winchester 22LR that I have seen is named Xpert, it's a 37 grain plain lead with a kinda large hollowpoint. I have a few boxes in my stock, I have never really had a problem with it, but some guys on rimfirecentral.com have taken to calling it Xspurt. That may be what you have. The Winchester Wildcat is a good economical choice, they come in 500 round packs, also in a white box, but not loose - in individual 50 round boxes.
Are you familiar with rimfirecentral? It's an excellent site.

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/index.php

[Bearman202]

I had to go get the box. It's the Winchester Wildcat .22, in individual boxes of 50. I'm hoping this is just a bad batch, but it's concerning anyway. What happened to quality control? They can turn out a lid for plastic bottles by the millions and get them all right, but they mess up when they're mass producing ammo? Do you see the problem? I took off my tinfoil hat some time ago, but it's got to make you wonder. We've got automation down pat, and yet we're still getting basic mistakes. It says it was made in the U.S.A., by the Olin Co. in East Alton, IL. It's 40 grain roundball. I looked closely to make sure there was a good hit on the rim by the firing pin, and it's definitely there. i.e. I don't think it's the gun. Thinking about it, I got a FTF from two different guns. One was a Ruger Mark II and the other was a brand spanking new Smith 22A.

The ammo thing is starting to bug me. A friend of mine, who is blind, goes to the range while his wife shoots. She's a competitive shooter. Anyway, he was there one day when we were shooting the Golden Points from a bulk pack, and he said he could hear a difference in the sound between different rounds. i.e. they were NOT loaded consistently. How hard could it be to get a consistent amount of powder into a .22 case? I didn't know about the rimfire forum, but I will check it out. Thanks.

[rice paddy daddy]

As a certified gun nut, especially 22's, and most especially old 22's, I have found rimfire central to be nirvana.
No politics, no general discussion, just guns-n-ammo.
Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.