Firearms for Preparedness and Survival Part 4: The Centerfire Rifle

[Spock]

Now here is where things start getting tricky. The rifle. Entire books have been written on this subject and the debate is ENDLESS. Unlike hand guns which are usually either a revolver or semi auto. The rifle comes in many different action types. Single shot, bolt action, slide action, lever action or semi auto. Even amount the single shots you have break action, falling block, and bolt action rifles. I'm going to go into depth on each action type thats what google is for but for segment we'll focus on the most popular type today, the semi auto.

In some places you simply can't have a semi auto rifle, if you live in one of those places, move.

Seriously. Your government doesn't respect you or freedom so why should they get your tax dollars?

The semi automatic rifle is the most popular rifle type in the USA at this time. From ruger 10/22s to AR-15s the semi auto is dominate. When I first got into guns all the gun writers in Guns and Ammo magazine would cover bolt action hunting rifles and only occasionally a semi auto. Go pickup a gun magazine now. Now its all about the semi auto and specifically about the semi auto military type rifles.

A couple of years ago a hunting show host named Jim Zumbo declared that AR-15 rifles were the guns of criminals and terrorists or some such nonsense. He was fired within 48 hours after making that statement. Now there is a magazine called AR Guns and hunting. Its dedicated to those who use ar-15 and ar-10 rifles for hunting. Remington even sells ar-15 and ar-10 rifles setup specifically for hunting.

Since our discussion is about firearms for preparedness and survival we will be talking about semi auto military type rifles.

Wait why not a semi auto like the Remington 7400? Rifles originally designed for civilian use are not designed with ruggedness and field serviceability like military rifles. I once took apart a Remington 7400. I couldn't even take apart all the way without tools. It also lacked features like a chromed bore and chamber which aid reliability and longevity. Parts for rifles designed for civilian use are also harder to get as they must be purchased from the manufacturer. Military rifles are designed for parts interchangeability even between countries of origin (like using an Israeli charging handle on a Belgium FAL ) who use the same platform. Rfiles like FN AR and the Remington 7400 simply can't do that.

So what brand do you buy? Its not about brand its about the platform. The major platforms that should be considered are:

AK-47/74
AR-15/10
MIA/M14/m1 carbine
G3/HK91
FAL

There are others like the Remington ACR and the FN SCAR however parts availability are limited to those manufacturers.

So what platform is best? that depends. If you live in Wyoming and are a large person an M1A or FAL might be a good choice. If you are of smaller stature an AR-15 might be a better choice. If you live in an area of thick vegetation a 7.62x39 AK would probably be better.

Just like the handgun your environment and you dictate what works best for you.

Another aspect to look at is this... what else can I use this for? Is it powerful enough and accurate enough for hunting? Can this serve a dual role?

Example 1. M1A as a main battle rifle but also using it with a magnified optic as DMR and hunting rifle.

Example 2 AK-47 in 7.62x39 as a brush rifle for both defense and hunting of deer sized game.

when thinking about and considering your choices take into consideration dual roles.

[Bill Foster]

A good subject. I have always followed the idea that different tools are used for different tasks. When I owned my 240Z, I had a set of shiney metric wrenches from Snap-On. When I had my MG, I had a hammer, a pair of pliers, and plenty of curse words. First, I am on a budget. My choice of defensive tools are military-style and inexpensive. If I am deer hunting (or moose hunting) at my bugout location, I would use my 8MM mauser with an optic. If I am patrolling for tresspassers, such as dogs, bunnies, and the like, I have an SKS in-hand and a 1911 on-hip. Just inside the door of the house, an 870 express for those close up and personal meetings. It's a quiet area, folks keep to themselves, but I have surprised a tax assessor and a visiting preacher before. It's funny, the tax assessor went pale and shook when confronted about tresspassing; the preacher was calm and a likeable man. I suppose their intentions had something to do with their demeanor. Bill

[biathlon]

There are a whole lot of other considerations in what you choose to carry. I personaly do not care for pistol grip rifles as I grew up with traditionaly stocked guns. I also live at 7,200 feet and frequent places well above 10,000 feet so weight is a major concern for me. Right now my absolut favorite rifle is my left hand Savage 308. Just over 7 pounds ready to go, sub minute accurate, more reliable than an AK, i can feed it anything that says"308 winchester or 7.62x51" and my hands are real familiar with it. My second favorite is my left hand BAR. Same ergonomics, quick follow up shots, slower twist barrel but very accurate with lighter points, same caliber, just as accurate. My little Keltec would be the super lightweight carbine of choice as it does not throw brass in my face and is also traditionaly stocked.

Anyone really interested in this should get Bostons Gun Bible.

[ristin59]

A .308 caliber rifle, semi auto is nice, but a bolt action is more problem free.

[overbore]

My thoughts on what rifle are predicated up these questions:
What is my target
At what range
how many are there
day or night
are they in cover or only concealed
if a game animal, can I place my one round in a vital zone?
Earlier posters have correctly touched upon the need for different weapons for different ranges. For the home or BOL, do you know about the colored rocks used by settlers in S. Africa? Permanent, discrete painted stones. Red paint, 100yds, white paint 200 yds, blue -300yds etc.Helps if you don't have a range card handy. Colored yarn works also just not as permanent.
Laus Deo
overbore

[shooter]

You can use a semi auto for close range hunting of any game we have here in the US, and I have taken many deer with my AR 10. You can use a bolt action rifle for point defense every army in the past 100 years has done so, IF you have enough rifles in the fight. In a SHTF situation I hope to NEVER HAVE to fire a round. NOW I don’t think this is a reasonable outlook, so I have a MBR (main battle Rifle) for each member of my family, remember that WTSHTF you may very well find yourself in a situation no matter how far out in the woods you are, that only accurate aimed fire from several semi auto rifles will put enough lead into a large enough number of you assailants to carry the day. REMEMBER this is about survival.
I love my rifles and have just taken delivery of a new 300RUM bolt action rifle its going to be my go to hunting gun, but it is not a gun I would want to defend myself with if I could only have one. Nor would my heavy bolt action 308, but It would bring a world of hurt on to 7 or 8 guys coming up my driveway (10 round mag). Now I have been blessed with the resources to own many rifles, and like tools in your tool box each one of them is the right tool for a specific job. In my truck I carry a smaller tool bag, and you can be sure that I have a couple of Crescent adjustable wrenches and a hammer. Thats where the MBR comes into this discussion.
In working with new prepers and folks on a budget they can’t afford 5 or 6 long guns so here we go, buy a semi auto designed as a military service rifle in a chambering that makes sense for your situation. BUT please buy yourself a case of ammo and go SHOOT. If you are not a “Shooter” get some training or it just won’t matter in the long run. You will be able to bluff your way thru the first few days in a SHTF situation, then you will be confronted with some folks just like you a week later and you may get thru that one, but not too far down the road you are going to run into some punk from the “Hood” who shot his first person when he was 13 (and the judge sent him to the army to get him on the right path), and if you don’t know what you are doing he’s going to add your stuff to his loot pile.

[baldsith]

Well when I chose my rifles I had to do it on a poor mans budget. I decided to streamline my calibers into 5. I have 9mm, 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, .22lr and 12 guage. My wife became ill and lost her job so we had only 1 income....I had to be selective...I chose the AK47. I didn't get the cheapest ones nor the most expensive..I chose a good qaulity one with a milled reciever. They are very robust and you just cant kill them. Mags are fairly cheap and ammo is also cheap. Good round out to about 300yards which is acceptable in the semi auto roll. Paid 1k for both For a bolt gun I have 2 m-44 mosins..they where 89.00 a piece and I had alot to pick from being able to get some better quality ones. They are not pretty by any means and are heavy. I know there are better ones out there but remember I was trying to obtain all the things I needed like food, water, medical, silver, gear and weapons so I had to spread the dollar. The mosin is a very decent rifle and is well built. It will take a lot of punishment and requires little up keep. I have since scoped one and at 500-800 yards keeps decent groups. It dosent need to be a tack driver just needs to hit a man sized target. The ammo is cheap as you can get 440 rds for like 99.00 although its non reloadable. The 12 guages are remington 870s...got them used for 150 to 200 each. The 22's are ruger 10/22's also got them used for 150 each. So I was able to get all that for around 1800.00. which is the price you might pay for 1 rifle like a scar or ar. I have no regrets on my choices as they work well for me. If I had it to do all over again and had all the cash up front I may have choosen an m1a socom and a ruger scout bolt rifle with 20 round box mag in .308...good rifles 1 caliber. But as I had to do this a little at a time I did what I could with what I had...no regrets guns work for me

[shooter]

Baldsith I think you have done a great job with the budget you set up thats a LOT of bang for your dollars. There is a lot to be said for the old surplus gear from both sides of the cold war. I have seen some of the Tokerov (SP?) semi auto pistols showing up with 9mm Para barrels at the guns shows in the Southern states. These would make very good SHTF side arms for $150 dollars.

[baldsith]

Thanks Shooter...I appreciate that....alot of people in other forums would just tell me how much junk I bought...lol....I have looked at the Tokerovs as some extra guns and a truck gun...that way if something happens to it I am not out a lot of money.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Thanks Shooter...I appreciate that....alot of people in other forums would just tell me how much junk I bought...lol....I have looked at the Tokerovs as some extra guns and a truck gun...that way if something happens to it I am not out a lot of money.

Man you got what you got. Use it, know it better than any mall ninjas and then every so often go out and kick the snot out of a range commando ata amtch and call it a good day! Having it with you at the moment id what counts. Went to lunch after a match with 25 shooters one time and was the only one carrying afterwards. I woulda felt a whole lot better if the guy on the other side of my table had a torkov tucked away that coulda been used had something gone down instead of all them 2K 1911s sitting in the trucks.

[Grand58742]

Thanks Shooter...I appreciate that....alot of people in other forums would just tell me how much junk I bought...lol....I have looked at the Tokerovs as some extra guns and a truck gun...that way if something happens to it I am not out a lot of money.

Tokarevs are a unique piece if I say so myself. I own one in the original caliber of 7.62x25mm, bought it on a whim. Surplus ammo is/was cheap (explained below), but corrosive. Commercial ammo is comparative to .45 ACP per box. Magazine capacity is limited, but the same as a 1911. The main problem is the surplus market has dried up and the cheap Romanian/Polish and Yugo bulk spam cans are a memory or folks are charging out the ying-yang for them. However, the round itself...

I've seen everything from "It'll blow off your arm with one shot!" to "it's too fast and won't create a proper wound channel." But it actually comes down to more of a lack of conclusive data and personal internet commando opinions rather than anything else. But when push comes to shove, I don't want to be on the receiving end of one to figure out whether or not it works as advertised. And for a prepper on a budget, $200 for the pistol isn't bad. And the cheaper surplus ammo can still be found from time to time. But even then the commercial stuff can be had reasonably priced when compared to .45 ACP and .40 S&W.

FWIW, the Tokarev could and would serve a person just fine as a secondary firearm and even potentially as a concealed carry. The problem lies in feeding the thing a steady diet nowadays. With the cheaper ammo supply drying up (and reportedly not looking good anytime soon) the commercial stuff costs a lot more and it's almost better to go with another pistol that doesn't depend on a unique round and surplus sales. Now if you get a line on the cheap bulk pack spam cans of ammo and a hoop of mags, I'd almost say go for it. And hopefully another supply comes into country and the spam cans are offered at a decent price once again.

It'll do just fine as long as one has the ammo for it to practice and stay proficient. IMO, it's a cheap, decently made pistol that doesn't have a lot of flaws to it. Straightforward single action with limited recoil, reasonably accurate and packs a decent round.

[baldsith]

Thanks Matt in Oklahoma....Well I am not an expert by any means...grew up shooting a series 70 colt my dad had and a single shot .22 at ground squirrles...have owned alot of guns over the years and had to sell alot also..lol...I don't think the gun matters, its whats behind the gun that counts. I never go anywheres without one, I guess you would call it perks of the job..lol...but I am a sheepdog and not a shepel!!!. Being friends with the gun shop owner helped alot because he let me tear them down right there and inspect them. He also had picked alot for me because he knew what I was looking for. I took the time to break them all down and clean them thoroughly. Ran them at the range constantly until I knew them inside and out, capabilities, effective ranges and ammo types. My biggest thing was having 2 of the same...my thought process 2 is 1 and 1 is none. 2nd gun is backup and spare parts mostly. Like I said I had a limited budget to work with and had to make the most of it, funny thing was when I started streamlining my calibers, my friends took a look at what I was doing and started doing the same. We all agreed on the same calibers. THe AK 47 is a semiauto rifle that is so easy to use and maintain. I understand its not a tac driver and it was never meant to be one. Neither is the Mosin. But they work and work well all the time. Spare parts are readily available. I can't tell you how many times Ive been to the range and saw these weekend range rambos there with all these fancy gizmos and gadgets on these really pimped out guns. I had one guy sitting next to me one day with a really nice m4. He was making comments under his breath about the ghetto AK I had. It was my Yugo M70AB2 underfolder. So I looked ouver at him and asked if he wanted to shoot the 300 yard plates, mind you we where like 2 out of 20 at the range. So this guy gets a big smile and says yes. Mind you he had and eotech sight and I was using iron ones. So I talked to the range master and told him we had a little competition going. So the range master askes everyone else if they wouldn't mind stopping for 5 mins so we could have a shoot out. Everyone agreed and started to gather around, by this time the guy is getting nervous, mind you I have shot under pressure and have been trained to do so. So right before we start I ask the guy if he wants to put his money where his mouth is, guy looks at me and says what do you have in mind. I said 20 bucks to winner who gets the most gongs. He says ok. I started out hit 30 out of 30 times on the gong, never a jam and just got into my rythm. When he starts, he forgets to take safety off. I had to reach over and flip it for him. Then he cant get his eotech on...had to do that for him too. Then he pulls trigger and nothing happens, I suggested he pull back the charging handle and load a round. Now that hes good he starts shooting....hits 20 out of 30 becasue he jerked the trigger and tried to speed shoot. After it was all said and done he makes a lot of excuses and hands me 20. I told him to keep his money because that was not my point. I told him he probably should keep his comments to himself because he never knows who hes talking about and that just because you have money to buy all the gadgets and gizmos doesnt make you an instant rambo. They guy was really humble after that point. Havent see him at the range in 2 months!!...lol

[baldsith]

Another thing I think people are forgetting WTSHTF...the idea is to not draw attention to yourself...avoid any possible engagements...anyone throwing lead at you can get a lucky shot in, game over people!...I will not be worried about MOA shot placement...or how my grouping was....I don't know how many of the people here have been in a gunfight...it's a lot different than shooting at paper...of that I can tell you...when rounds are hitting the pavement around you..the first thing is getting the heck outta there...finding cover and then returning fire...you won't have the luxury of taking your time and all that jazz...it's pretty much gonna be front post combat shooting

[baldsith]

Tokarevs are a unique piece if I say so myself. I own one in the original caliber of 7.62x25mm, bought it on a whim. Surplus ammo is/was cheap (explained below), but corrosive. Commercial ammo is comparative to .45 ACP per box. Magazine capacity is limited, but the same as a 1911. The main problem is the surplus market has dried up and the cheap Romanian/Polish and Yugo bulk spam cans are a memory or folks are charging out the ying-yang for them. However, the round itself...

I've seen everything from "It'll blow off your arm with one shot!" to "it's too fast and won't create a proper wound channel." But it actually comes down to more of a lack of conclusive data and personal internet commando opinions rather than anything else. But when push comes to shove, I don't want to be on the receiving end of one to figure out whether or not it works as advertised. And for a prepper on a budget, $200 for the pistol isn't bad. And the cheaper surplus ammo can still be found from time to time. But even then the commercial stuff can be had reasonably priced when compared to .45 ACP and .40 S&W.

FWIW, the Tokarev could and would serve a person just fine as a secondary firearm and even potentially as a concealed carry. The problem lies in feeding the thing a steady diet nowadays. With the cheaper ammo supply drying up (and reportedly not looking good anytime soon) the commercial stuff costs a lot more and it's almost better to go with another pistol that doesn't depend on a unique round and surplus sales. Now if you get a line on the cheap bulk pack spam cans of ammo and a hoop of mags, I'd almost say go for it. And hopefully another supply comes into country and the spam cans are offered at a decent price once again.

It'll do just fine as long as one has the ammo for it to practice and stay proficient. IMO, it's a cheap, decently made pistol that doesn't have a lot of flaws to it. Straightforward single action with limited recoil, reasonably accurate and packs a decent round.

Yes I agree they are a good alternative if you are working on limits...Have also shot one that a guy at the range tuned up..didn't cost him much and it worked flawlessly everytime. The surplus ammo is hit or miss these days...I have seen a lot of cracked necks on the ammo and would be hesitant to shoot it. But having said that they would be a welcomed addition to your bag O tricks. I would try to get a chinese one in 9mm over the standard 7.62x25 though

[shooter]

I have seen the Tokarevs in 9MM showing up in TX/LA area lately. Like yourselves I really like the ideal of haveing an inexpensive but well made back up pistol to leave in the truck. I found a Rock Isl. 1911 A1 used for $300 buck with a couple of OK mags. After proper cleaning and break in the gun runs pretty good with GI Ball so it has a home under the back seat. I recently ran across an old Isreali rebuilt Burno mauser that had been rebarrled in 7.62 X 51. This rifle has seen a lot of service, the rear sight has been removed and replaced with a budget scout scope mount and a $49 dollar scope. The muzzle looks funny as the barrel has been back bored to form a crown that is recessed about an inch into the barrel, the good part is it shoots nato surplus (from who knows where) into a solid 1.25 inches at 100 yards and my 150 gr Nosler BT's at well under an inch! All for $269 I will up grade the mount and purchase a better scope for this one.
I would not over look any of the old mil-surplus rifles for duty on a budget, and as Baldsith points out so well (Above) its the number of hits delivered that will win the day. The money saved can go towards additional preps cause 2 is 1 and 1 is none.