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  • "Clipping the chicken wing"

    OK so this kinda needed to be addressed. It's a little habit that could get you killed when working under certain conditions- i.e, CQB type environments.

    The video came about because of one of one of the rare times I actually watch any vids on youtube. A certain survival expert type that has gained some notariety the last couple of years has a video out wherein he says that the "correct" way to shoot a rifle is... and then he assumes the classic Olympic shooting style standing BRM position.

    And let me be perfectly clear, that position isn't bad, for what it's designed for. However the way it's taught with the "chicken wing" aka elbow and arm of the dominant hand raised up, has the potential of getting you hurt or worse in a CQB environment.

    Why you ask? Watch the video and see-



    Problems with not keeping things in "tight" can be easily spotted by working corners and angles with a partner. They assume a spot on the opposite side of the corner. For now, have them stay out of the "hard corner". Their is a way to deal with that also, but it's a little outside the context of what I needed to show in this video.

    So your training partner stands still a couple feet back from the corner on the opposite side you are on. You start working the corner- make sure your using a red gun for this and are safe blah blah blah. Your partner on the opposite side is staying in one place but will call out to you everything he/she sees as soon as they see it. You in turn do the same. We gave an example of this in the video as the camera gal was calling out body parts that "appeared" in her view. Note that in the example where I used the "chicken wing" I saw NOTHING of her before she was calling out "Elbow! Arm!" That's because when you "chicken wing" it, you are unintentionally LEADING with your elbow.

    Which equates out to a good way to get shot in the elbow- or worse.

    The 2nd example was with all body parts tucked in tight. The first look at me that round around the camera was then able to get was of the business end of the rifle and part of my head. Obviously your gonna have to expose some of your head to line up the weapon and ID the target. For legality sake I want to stress "always ID the target." But as others have mentioned their is other ways to do it with slightly less exposure. Making the video I have to be careful how and what is said if you know what I mean ;)

    The more important part of the video was not to get boxed in with the "my way of training is the best way" line of thinking. Get out and be willing to try new things. Pressure test them, don't just accept it as Gospel because the Army taught you that 100 years ago, or the police academy didn't teach you that, or even that some "expert" said it. TRY IT, PROVE IT, PRESSURE TEST IT, TEST IT WITH FORCE ON FORCE.

    Always be willing to learn. The only time we should stop learning is when we die, seriously.

    Robert/Lowdown3
    www.homesteadingandsurvival.com

    www.survivalreportpodcast.com

    "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed..."

  • #2
    Cool vid, even my wife got a kick out of watching it, and thought it made sense! Do you have any feedback about using this stance with a shotgun? My WASR is a baby compared to my benelli nova with #4 buck or 00. Maybe i can use this as an excuse to get me one of those recoil reduction inertia inserts. :D
    ---------------
    HV FN ES 73!
    http://skattagun.blogspot.com
    "3. you cannot count on your adversary sucking. to do so invites disaster."
    --Spock
    ---------------

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    • #3
      excellent video. I did notice you kept mentioning getting the elbow shot off I'd like to point out a few things.

      interior walls of houses are not armor. they are not cover. they aren't even cover to pistol bullets like 9mm. if you are coming around the corner with the chicken wing out I on the other side know the following:

      1. I know where you are at.
      2. I know where you intend to be next
      3. I know you are armed
      4. I know its a long gun and not a pistol

      I , personally, won't waste bullets or buckshot on such a small target. oh no I'll simply adjust my aim 18 inches or so and shoot through the wall or I'll drop to kneeling to take me out of your soon to be immediate line of fire and when you do come around the corner you'll be way behind the curve as I get off the 1st aimed shots.

      "You are the Vice Regent of the Jews" -QRPRAT77

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      • #4
        Yes without a doubt. The idea is that you want to SEE them first before they SEE you.
        www.homesteadingandsurvival.com

        www.survivalreportpodcast.com

        "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed..."

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        • #5
          Awesome video guys! Thanks!

          Comment


          • #6
            i want my wings extra cripsy dang it. :)

            Great vid as always.........
            Hey Petunia...you dropped your man pad!

            Comment


            • #7
              Very good. Never thought about loosing my wing! BTW you've lost a lot of weight and it shows!

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks MB. God knows I've been working hard on it.

                gprat- Not a problem to use a CQB type stance with a shotgun. Actually better than a Olympic style standing stance as your weight it more forward with a CQB stance- think "nose over toes." A slightly forward positive aggressive stance will allow more control over rapid shots with a shotgun than the classic body leaned back "OMG it's gonna go bang so I have to keep my head far away" stance.
                www.homesteadingandsurvival.com

                www.survivalreportpodcast.com

                "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed..."

                Comment


                • #9
                  I dont know why...but this has long been a pet peeve of mine.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Good video! Thanks for sharing and showing us exactly the views that get across the points on this issue! Nicely done.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      it's pretty much a non issue really, since the rifle is not needed until shtf, the pistol will suffice. If it's shtf, you are foolish to be out in the daylight, so how is the chicken wing stance a problem in the dark, hmm? the low arm positin stance is slow (or likely to be fumbled)for shouldering the gun from the low ready and keeping the gun shouldered is extremely tiring.

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                      • #12
                        The main problems with the chicken wing - or what I call the classic offhand position in general 1) it does not allow for rapid fire because recoil absorption sucks 2) it does not allow for movement, you can't walk in it 3) it is uncomfortable, fatiguing in the long term 4) it is hard to transition targets in much more than a 10 degree arc 5) the exposing yourself in CQB would be the final concern

                        The most important thing you can do is get out and do some dynamic shooting. Read some, watch some videos, watch people at the range... and find WHAT WORKS FOR YOU. I can guarantee that you won't keep that olympic stance for long.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by lungs View Post
                          it's pretty much a non issue really, since the rifle is not needed until shtf, the pistol will suffice. If it's shtf, you are foolish to be out in the daylight, so how is the chicken wing stance a problem in the dark, hmm? the low arm positin stance is slow (or likely to be fumbled)for shouldering the gun from the low ready and keeping the gun shouldered is extremely tiring.
                          Folks, this is a perfect example of what some of you may remember me doing a thread about some time back. Be VERY careful what you read and believe on the internet. There are absolutely clueless idiots all over the net, and elsewhere. This is a perfect example of someone speaking authoratatively, on something of which they are dead wrong about and have zero relavant experience, as evident by the post itself.
                          I'm not posting this to garner any replies, just using it as an example. Note that the poster is banned, and with good reason. Most folks here take the topics here and the point of the board itself, very seriously. Thus bogus information does not belong here, especially not info that is potentially dangerous.

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                          • #14
                            "Lungs" was formally (in)famous on the internet under another name.....
                            www.homesteadingandsurvival.com

                            www.survivalreportpodcast.com

                            "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed..."

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