How much med supplies should we be stocking???

[justanothergunnut]

no need to apologize sheepdog.. reality is what we deal with.. when we get to a certain level its all that matters. I couldnt care less about hearing nice fluffy stories about how easy things will be.. Thats not me, I may not be capable of handling a medical emergency of that magnitude, I am obviously guilty of deluding my self thinking that it was as easy as it appeared. That being said though learning the basics of IV therapy is not beyond me. Your advice about finding someone who is in the medical field and integrating them or us into that group is good advice. We can't all be specialists..

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

Don't get me wrong, everyone needs to have training and even some advanced training like IVs, crics, needle decompression etc. If I have to start an IV quick I would hope that someone in my group would be right there handing me what I need so it can be done quicker. Of course, I may be on my own so knowing how to do it will be key. Sometimes a skill needs to be done quick as the patient can crash very fast. Having some help will make things possibly go easier and quicker. Get training, get practice, get more training , get more practice. When you think you've learn a skill, do it in the dark with a flashlight, then do it with your gear on in the dark. Problem is, unless you are in the medical field some of the practice part is hard to do, but there is a lot you can do with a SAM splint, some gauze, triangular bandages, tape and Coban.

Other med supplies I've thought of that I may not have mentioned earlier...

Coban, or Vet wrap
Manual suction device
Decompression needles
Cricothyrotomy needles
Large abdominal dressings
Sterile saline or sterile water for wound irrigation
Medical instrument kit (shameless plug for JRH enterprises as they use to have a fairly decent one at a good price)
Tourniquets, yep more than one....CAT one is what I feel is the best
8"x10" and 5"x9" sterile dressings
Did I mention bunches of bandaids and antibiotic ointments?
Examination gloves, I prefer Nitrile over Latex-get multiple sizes as you never know who will show up at your door asking for help. Not all med people are preppers
Triangular bandages
Chest seals, again...more than one
Adaptic dressings (Vaseline dressing)
Oral and nasopharyngeal airways-multiple sizes
Ambu bag(s)
Stethoscope
Blood pressure cuff
Pulse oximeter
Thermometer
Betadine
KY lube for nasopharyngeal airway insertion
Surgical masks and or shields/eye protection. Arterial bleeds can squirt a lot and quite far at times!

Another thing, where are you going to store things? Med supplies like dressings and bandages can last a long time if stored from varmints. You need to have a grab and go bag/patrol bag first aid kit, IFAK, Blow out kit, and base kit. Of course each if these will have slightly different kit contents and amount of supplies, but all need the basics. Again, www.jrhenterprises.com has some good kits. Check them out and support the forum sponsor.

We haven't even talked about Rx meds like antibiotics, oral steroids, oral antivirals, topical creams, etc. Everyone talks about the antibiotics but I wouldn't want to have a run in with a bad case of poison ivy and not have something to calm it down or be exposed to the flu and not have Tamiflu. Germ warfare has been used in the past, so it won't take a genius to figure out to send someone sick into your camp, then wait a few days when many of your group is sick and attack.

I agree also with previous post about learning more about natural/herbal remedies. They can be very appropriate as well to have stored up.

Just a few more of my thoughts.

When is the next class of Survival Medicine that JRH sponsors coming up?


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[justanothergunnut]

Thanks sheep dog

in regards to your list.. please if you dont mind critique what I have vs what I have on my short list and possible advance items you think a trained medical pro may want/need that I can stock easily..

Coban, or Vet wrap I have 2" 50 rolls 3" 50 rolls
Manual suction deviceI dont currently have ,I have considered it, recommendations please
Decompression needlesI have North American Rescue 20 qty
Cricothyrotomy needles
Large abdominal dressings
Sterile saline or sterile water for wound irrigationI have 4 cases 48 bottles 1000ml ea
Medical instrument kit (shameless plug for JRH enterprises as they use to have a fairly decent one at a good price)I have several wound closure kits that include sterile instrument kits
Tourniquets, yep more than one....CAT one is what I feel is the bestI have 15 red tip CAT's and 7 SOF
8"x10" and 5"x9" sterile dressings
Did I mention bunches of bandaids and antibiotic ointments?
Examination gloves, I prefer Nitrile over Latex-get multiple sizes 6 boxes of lg and 6 boxes mediumas you never know who will show up at your door asking for help. Not all med people are preppers
Triangular bandages
Chest seals, again...more than oneI have 20+ hyfin chest seals as well as several other brands
Adaptic dressings (Vaseline dressing)
Oral and nasopharyngeal airways-multiple sizesI have 20+ nasal airway tubes as well as lube packets
Ambu bag(s)
StethoscopeI have ONE
Blood pressure cuffI have ONE
Pulse oximeter
Thermometer
Betadine
KY lube for nasopharyngeal airway insertion
Surgical masks and or shields/eye protection. Arterial bleeds can squirt a lot and quite far at times!
I also have several 3+ dozen rolls of 6" gauze , 50 H&H compressed gauze, 100+ of ea. size assorted gauze 2" 4" 6" , 10 Quick clot combat gauze(millitary grade, not powdered garbage)IV starter sets, catheters, assorted needle sets, Dental emergency kits, Field burn kit modules

I sell a fair amount of medical supplies for preppes at gun shows but I want to step up my personal supplies above the normal.. In addition I also keep a pretty healthy stock of antibiotics(Amox,tetra,zithro,cipro,augmentin.. all the normal stuff) and otc drugs.. everything from cold/flu remedies to poison oak treatment and anti bacterial cremes. Any advice would be VERY appreciated..

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

As far as numbers of things, again, that would depend on the size of your group. A family of four lets say, may only need 8 of a particular items where a group of 20 may need more. I'll only say, get more then you think you'll need. Double or triple would be good, but we all have budgets and priorities. I'm sure each of us will say, "if I had only gotten ............. Instead of -------- " a few times after TSHTF.

Disclaimer
I have dealt with Rescue Essentials before, but have no financial interest in them. There are many companies out there, so look around.

I WOULD ASK THAT ANYONE LOOKING AT MEDICAL EQUIPMENT (or any other supplies) CONTACT JRH ENTERPRISES ( www.JRHEnterprises.com ) IF THEY HAVE WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR. JRH SPONSORS THIS FORUM AND WE NEED TO TRY AND SUPPORT THEM WHEN WE CAN.

Manual suction- http://www.rescue-essentials.com/rescue-suction-unit/
Decompression needles - I have North American Rescue 20 qt (I hope you don't need all of these)
Cricothyrotomy needles - http://www.rescue-essentials.com/nar...tical-crickit/ or you could use a chest decompression needle, but you will have to find a pediatric endotracheal tube and take off the end of that and attach to the hub of the needle. This would allow an Ambu bag to attach to the needle. I have also seen a syringe attach to the needle and the Ambu bag then goes into the place where the plunger of the syringe would be. I cannot remember the size syringe off the top of my head, maybe a 10mL, but I'm not sure.
Large abdominal dressings - http://www.rescue-essentials.com/tra...sterile-10x30/ you would know why you need such a large dressing if you had ever seen an evisceration.
Sterile saline or sterile water for wound irrigation<font color="#FF0000">I have 4 cases 48 bottles 1000ml - should be good here
Medical instrument kit (shameless plug for JRH enterprises as they use to have a fairly decent one at a good price) I have several wound closure kits that include sterile instrument kits - Just make sure they are metal that you could boil to sterilize if you needed them again.
Tourniquets, yep more than one....CAT one is what I feel is the best - I have 15 red tip CAT's and 7 SOF (this is one thing many people think they only need one of. We all should have one on our BOK, one on our IFAK and one in every vehicle you own. I'm sure there were a few people in Boston that wanted a tourniquet).
8x10 and 5x9& sterile dressings - get as many as you think you need and double or triple it.
Did I mention bunches of bandaids and antibiotic ointments?
Examination gloves, I prefer Nitrile over Latex-get multiple sizes 6 boxes of lg and 6 boxes medium as you never know who will show up at your door asking for help. Not all med people are preppers. - I would add a couple boxes of small. I work with another provider that wears small. If you want, get some sterile surgical gloves as well.
Triangular bandages - this is a great tool. We all should have a couple dozen or so.
Chest seals, again...more than one. I have 20+ hyfin chest seals as well as several other brands. Unless you have a very large group, and expecting several firefights, you should be good here. Remember, you may need two for some patients as there may be an entry and exit wound.
Adaptic dressings (Vaseline dressing) - can double for chest seal if needed, or wound care.
Oral and nasopharyngeal airways-multiple sizes - I have 20+ nasal airway tubes as well as lube packets. Just make sure you have various sizes for your group members.
Ambu bag(s) - Many brands out there, pick one. http://www.rescue-essentials.com/poc...ag-valve-mask/
Stethoscope - I have ONE....two is one, one is none as the saying goes
Blood pressure cuff - I have ONE - ditto above
Pulse oximeter - get one
Thermometer
Betadine - get a gallon
Burn sheets - these would be nice to have as well as they are large sheets to cover big areas of the body.

You said that you "sell a fair amount of medical supplies for preppes at gun shows but I want to step up my personal supplies above the normal.. In addition I also keep a pretty healthy stock of antibiotics(Amox,tetra,zithro,cipro,augmentin.. all the normal stuff) and otc drugs.. everything from cold/flu remedies to poison oak treatment."

Your stock seems to be pretty good. Having the supplies to sell at shows helps you out quite a bit on inventory. Some additional thoughts...

No need to have any "advanced" medical kits for the wandering doctor/PA/Nurse/EMT-Paramedic that stumbles into your compound. Without the equipment we have in the hospital (anesthesia, staff, lots of IV antibiotics, ventilators, bypass machines, X-rays, CT/MRIs, etc.) not many of the chests that are cracked open, or bellies explored will have a very good prognosis.

Splint kit would help. The SAM splints are nice for a backpack, but if you don't have casting materials and skills, then having some air splints or rigid splints would be useful. A traction splint for a fractured femur is another item, but expensive.

Tamiflu for flu.
Valtrex for shingles/fever blisters/HSV may be a good idea but not "high priority".

Topical meds, as not a high priority, will be a great comfort item. If you have jock itch or poison ivy or any itchy rash that has an unbearable itch, some good topical meds will be much appreciated.

Topical steroid creams/lotions
Topical antifungal creams/powders
Anti-Itch creams/lotions
Antibiotic cream/ointment

Just a few more of my rambling thoughts....


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[justanothergunnut]

thank you for your input sheepdog.. I appreciate your expertise..

[alco141]

you cant stock too much in the way of bandage material, you will be amazed at how fast you use up all you have ,or what you think you have.

alex

[610Alpha]

I get a kick out of the classes that teach you how to start an IV. Okay they are fine and everything, but really, I can teach a teenager the skills to start and IV in probably an hour or two. The real skill is knowing when it is appropriate, what type of fluid is needed and the rate of the fluid you will be infusing. When you are losing fluid like your wife was, she was not only losing fluid volume but was also losing some key electrolytes. Those electrolytes are key for muscles (heart is a muscle) and other critical functions. If she was that fluid depleted, they were probably monitoring her blood work for electrolytes and adding what was needed to the IV bag. The fluid was probably being infused at a specific rate to bring those electrolytes back up to normal. Unfortunately, we won't have those capabilities, so that is where experience will be key. Too much fluid in some situations can put your patient into fluid overload which could possibly be worse than what you were trying to correct. You may have to titrate the IV fluid rate based on your patients vital signs, lung sounds, heart sounds and neurological status. I applaud you for seeing what we will be missing in a PAW, and the fact that you need additional training. I would guess that most people that have taken an IV class a year ago would not be very proficient at it today. Those IV arms are great for practice, but when someone is hemorrhaging or sick with the flu and vomiting and such (like your wife), their veins are going to be very hard to find especially when all you have practiced on is a rubber arm or a group mate with normal vital signs. You do have the capability to perform an intraosseous infusion, central line or a cut down, right? LOL, just kidding.... Keep attending classes. Start with the basics and practice continually. I have been in medicine treating patients for 30+ years and I can tell you experience counts but even with my experience there will be times that in a PAW I will only be able to do so much. Patients die today with the best equipment, so they will die in a PAW without equipment. Get that into your mind now, as we all will see death when TSHTF. The best scenario would be to try and find someone that is in medicine, vet them and get them into your group. If that is not an option, take classes, volunteer at the hospital (you may not be able to do things, but you may see things and can learn), join your Fire Department as a volunteer, CERT, etc. get out and experience patients sick, wounded and dying. Sorry to be a Debbie downer about the death stuff, but that will be reality if it gets to that PAW place.

Sorry for the thread drift but felt that it was important to say since we were talking about supplies and training.



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My is back to work as an RN and she is going back through the ACLS class after a 4 year hiatus being a SAHM. They were talking about IV's and what to do if you can't get the AC or forearm.....Intraosseous infusion...aka IO...you drill into the bone!!!! She had to tell me all about it and of course show me video...made me squirm. It apparently doesn't hurt like you would think but it is very unsettling to watch and think about.

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

Oh it still hurts. Just most of the time when you get to that point the patient is pretty close to being out. Thinks about it. If you are any good at getting an IV started even if you have a reasonable blood pressure, you should be able to get a stick. Once the patient tanks and the pressure drops for whatever reason, the stick will get much harder. That's when knowing the venous anatomy can be very helpful and if needed an IO or external jugular can come into play.


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[610Alpha]

Oh it still hurts. Just most of the time when you get to that point the patient is pretty close to being out. Thinks about it. If you are any good at getting an IV started even if you have a reasonable blood pressure, you should be able to get a stick. Once the patient tanks and the pressure drops for whatever reason, the stick will get much harder. That's when knowing the venous anatomy can be very helpful and if needed an IO or external jugular can come into play.


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In case people wanted to see it. She doesn't even flinch.

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

Being a med guy, I wanted to bring this thread back to life to those that may have missed it from 2013. We are talking about food, homesteading, gear and stuff, but med supplies fall to the bottom of the list. As I said in this thread, there will be many people that will succumb to an infection due to a laceration or burn that wasn't bandaged and cared for properly due to lack of medical supplies.

I challenge you to take what you would spend on a case of ammo, and buy medical supplies. You can get a good start with $200-$300 worth of med supplies.

[Lowdown3]

Amen to that. And not just for SHTF but common sickness and med issues around the house. Been a fun summer here, a few weeks after sinus surgery I go to my second followup and the doc and assistants are putting long instruments up my nose and into my sinuses along with a scope. I noticed these just came out of a big wooded drawer. No autoclave package, not even little plastic wrap like at the dentist, no signs of sterilization. Next followup about a week to ten day later he does the same and then announces I have an infection. Pulls a little bit of it and says he's going to send it to the lab. Sends me home with a script for Bacrtim which ends up being total BS that I'm allergic to. So I end up getting STAPH from that 2nd followup. Worse couple weeks of my life, crap manifests itself out of the front of my nose and also I can feel it inside my ear canal.

Because we had an otoscope, my wife was able to look and confirm the crap inside my ears was the same as the crap that manifested itself out the front of my nose.

The doc and staff was completely unresponsive to us telling him the bactrim was doing nothing, possibly causing allergic reactions, etc. "Just keep taking it". Sluffing me off on my local doc (but HE didn't cause this problem, your unclean practices did!!) Finally via telemedicine with an old friend who by just hearing the symptoms and seeing the pic over text, directs me to go and get a shot of Rocephrin. I go to my local doc, he agrees 100% and also gives me a shot of steroids. My 104 temp goes down to 98 by the time we get back home.

Having basic medical supplies and some basic idea of what's going on with your body is important whether SHTF or not. I knew this was manifesting in the sinuses but I repeatedly told the sinus doc- "this is not like any sinus infection I've ever had, and I had about a dozen in the last couple years." Too often they think the patient is an idiot or they have the small g god complex.

[Bill Foster]

On the subject of supplies, is this a good deal?

Gauze Bandages
Genuine Surplus Military Issue. $6.99

http://armysurpluswarehouse.com/gauze-bandages/

http://armysurpluswarehouse.com/gauze-bandages/

[protus]

Bill..I think better is out there....
Looks like just rolled gauze or ace wrap.
7$ per roll? I'd pass.7$ a case....then sure.

[protus]

LD.
I had a nasty rash/msra/poison ivy/lepersy outbreak last month.
Most insane thing I've had. I've never had issues with ivy. If it was that. But it went full blown contact dermatitis.
Had to go on a steroid dose pack, and two different creams . To knock it down.
Wanna know what popped in my head.
" this would suck in the paw "
It was on my face,back,the twig and berries lol you name it.
All the areas gear would rub...it was crazy.

But I agree some docs have no idea or just don't care..

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

......Having basic medical supplies and some basic idea of what's going on with your body is important whether SHTF or not. I knew this was manifesting in the sinuses but I repeatedly told the sinus doc- "this is not like any sinus infection I've ever had, and I had about a dozen in the last couple years." Too often they think the patient is an idiot or they have the small g god complex.

Here is the bottom line, just as LD says, know your body and have some supplies and the knowledge on how to use them. Also, get healthy now as the healthcare system isn't getting better from what I am seeing. We use to have a system where the providers actually practiced medicine and tried to cure you, a lot of times with natural products, but now the system is set up to keep you coming back. Get your weight down (if you are overweight) by not eating the "pyramid". Do your research on what is a healthy diet and what is not...and stay with it. The healthcare system is broken, and soon will be bankrupt as it use to be the baby boomers were fat and unhealthy, but now the children are unhealthy. What does this mean? Well, instead of being 40 years old and needing diabetic, cholesterol, blood pressure meds, you are now seeing children 12-15 years old on these same meds...plus ADHD, anxiety and depression meds. The system will not be able to afford this, or the budget will be so high we will be running trillion dollar deficits...oh wait we are close to that now....:mad: