Got a faith question that I need help with.

[bcdallas]

Make a very long story short, I believe in God but from a lot of life experience I have lost faith in churches. My main problem is the people I have run into that have the I am better then you attitude, and say one thing and do another. And then have the gall to tell me how to run my life and tell my wife she shouldn't be with me because she could do better, I dont do drugs and I dont break the law, I am a vet and have been a LEO for a state agency and left the later because the Union pissed me off and I didnt tow there line, I was then unemployed for a several months and that is why the wife's family doesnt like me, unlike them I dont come from money and times were hard, but we made it threw. Guess they left a bad taste in my mouth.
Any idea or advise or just thoughts would be helpful.
Thanks for your time.

[miked2345]

So what's the question??????

[protus]

So what's the question??????

im thinking its about the church. not really "his" faith.

OP...those folks at church,the inlaws or anyone else aint who will be judging you. they are just people. As to churches well...i float around..youll find what feels right and works for you.......long as your right with the lord on your side it'll all work out.......trust in him and he'll lead you.....

[Lowdown3]

moved to the prayer room.

Couple things you might want to consider-

1. It's about a RELATIONSHIP between you and your Savior, who gives a damn about other people outside of that? You shouldn't. Christ Himself dealt with all the accompanying BS we do with regards to the Pharisees- "OM goodness, look at this guy, he's eating with SINNERS! AAHHHH! He didn't even wash his hands before dinner!!!" That sort of thing. The pharisees were too locked into RITUAL, DOCTRINE, etc. They would have rather a lame man not be healed than to be healed on the Sabbath.

Unfortunately, a lot of people act like Pharisees today. Ignore them, pray for them but don't let them come between you and your Savior.

2. Get into the Word of God. Many would disagree and say start at the start, but I've always found it easier to start in the New Testament. After studying the NT, studying the OT will become significantly easier IME.

https://www.ttb.org

has podcasts, radio stations all over the country, etc. Dr. McGee goes over the entire Bible in 5 years. Start listening to it, no matter where he's at right now. I don't agree with everything he says, but that's o.k.

Stop looking for perfection in men, you ain't gonna find it. Perfection comes from Him alone that loved you so much He took the worst punishment a man has ever taken. He took that punishment for you and for me. Know any other King who would willingly die for His subjects? I don't. He loves you, He doesn't judge you, He wants you to come to Him just as you are and accept Him as your Lord and Savior.

Just "believing in God" isn't enough, the demons also believe "and tremble" (what an awesome passage of Scripture!!!). We have to accept Christ's sacrifice for us and take Him as our Lord and Savior. He loves you, ask Him into your heart and to forgive your sins. He will do it cause He loves you.

Then- get to know Him.

Most of all, get your eyes off of man, and get them on the One who matters!

Lord bless you brother.
Robert

[Benn Gleck]

PREACH IT!!

Brother L.D. you missed your calling!

[Rmplstlskn]

Christ Himself dealt with all the accompanying BS we do with regards to the Pharisees- "OM goodness, look at this guy, he's eating with SINNERS! AAHHHH! He didn't even wash his hands before dinner!!!" That sort of thing. The pharisees were too locked into RITUAL, DOCTRINE, etc. They would have rather a lame man not be healed than to be healed on the Sabbath.

I hope this isn't a hijack, but your comments bring out the time when I saw these verses in a different context then what I had seen them in for decades previous, and it was mindblowingly deep (in my opionion)...

You mention two events Messiah rebuked the Pharisees...

1. He didn't wash his hands...
2. heal the lame man on the Sabbath...

A "law" to wash your hands is found nowhere in Torah, the Prophets, or the NT. It is a "takanot," which is a man-made LAW that was INVENTED by the Pharisees/Rabbis that was enforced as if written by Moses in the Torah.

There were several "takanot (man-made laws)" that Messiah broke by the healing of the lame man. And when you see them, you see how Messiah was rubbing the Pharisees noses in their man-made excrement... The primary one was when he told the man to take up his mat and carry it. The Pharisees freaked out, as this man broke one of THEIR laws... Once again, no such law in Torah, the Prophets or NT...

The best examples of what Messiah was doing to the Pharisees is when he healed the blind man, the chief prophesy that would signal that one was the "Messiah."

With this man, on the Sabbath, he picked up mud, spit in it, put it on his eyes, then told him to walk all the way to the other side of Jerusalem to rinse out the mud.... Believe it or not, there is a Pharisaical law against making mud with spit and putting it in your eyes ON THE SABBATH... Seriously! It is a rabbinical law (man-made)... So is walking across Jerusalem on a Sabbath day. Does anyone see how Messiah was rubbing the Pharisees noses in their man-made religious system excrement?

When I started understanding what Messiah was REALLY doing in these events, it was mind-blowing...

One thing Messiah never did, ever, was break Torah... So WWJD? :confused:

Rmpl

[creman]

I'm not sure how to take your post. I can't tell if it is a "I can live how I want and the people in church shouldn't judge me!" or if you've had some instances of critical judgment from those around you.

if the former, God does give us a standard to live to; so it is a bit more than "I can do what I want because I have fire insurance." Paul explains that we are not to grieve the spirit and to make Christ suffer more just because we have a free pass (Romans 6:1). If people are trying to encourage and instruct you to live a life that is more holy, then good for them and you need to remove your pride.

If the latter and they are like the Pharisee that have already been mentioned, and cannot remove the plank in their own eye before judging you, then my answer is simple. There is no such thing as a perfect church because it is run by imperfect people. I am a Youth Pastor and I make mistakes all the stinking time. I can only TRY to do what God has for me and try to live up to His standard but I fail. You have to be willing to look over this just as they should look over your faults and worship together anyway. Find those who are like minded and help to lift up God. That is why we gather, to praise and worship God as we give ourselves a recharge to do His work in our lives. It's not about us, try to remember that.

Just be careful with the "it doesn't matter outside of me and my relationship to God" because that is not really true. God has a purpose for us and part of that purpose is other people. We are to be examples of Jesus and the hands and feet of God in order to do His will and work, which involves other people. Therefore, our relationship with God is more than just us. I'm new here and am not trying to come across as brash, I just try to keep things simple and to the point.

[creman]

I hope this isn't a hijack, but your comments bring out the time when I saw these verses in a different context then what I had seen them in for decades previous, and it was mindblowingly deep (in my opionion)...

You mention two events Messiah rebuked the Pharisees...

1. He didn't wash his hands...
2. heal the lame man on the Sabbath...

A "law" to wash your hands is found nowhere in Torah, the Prophets, or the NT. It is a "takanot," which is a man-made LAW that was INVENTED by the Pharisees/Rabbis that was enforced as if written by Moses in the Torah.

There were several "takanot (man-made laws)" that Messiah broke by the healing of the lame man. And when you see them, you see how Messiah was rubbing the Pharisees noses in their man-made excrement... The primary one was when he told the man to take up his mat and carry it. The Pharisees freaked out, as this man broke one of THEIR laws... Once again, no such law in Torah, the Prophets or NT...

The best examples of what Messiah was doing to the Pharisees is when he healed the blind man, the chief prophesy that would signal that one was the "Messiah."

With this man, on the Sabbath, he picked up mud, spit in it, put it on his eyes, then told him to walk all the way to the other side of Jerusalem to rinse out the mud.... Believe it or not, there is a Pharisaical law against making mud with spit and putting it in your eyes ON THE SABBATH... Seriously! It is a rabbinical law (man-made)... So is walking across Jerusalem on a Sabbath day. Does anyone see how Messiah was rubbing the Pharisees noses in their man-made religious system excrement?

When I started understanding what Messiah was REALLY doing in these events, it was mind-blowing...

One thing Messiah never did, ever, was break Torah... So WWJD? :confused:

Rmpl

I think it's even deeper than that. I don't believe Jesus did it as an "In your face!" to the Pharisees, because we are instructed not to offend others if we can help it, even if there is nothing wrong with it in the begining (1 Corinthians 8:13). I believe it is more of a picture of Jesus fullfilling the law (Matthew 5:17) and bringing an end to it, so we are no longer bound by the bondage of slavery to the mosaic law (Gal 4:7). Instead, "the law" became an issue intent and heart, not follow by the letter. (1 John 3:15)

Now let me clarify, The Pharisee did take it as an "in your face moment" but I don't believe that was the intent. I also believe that Jesus never broke any of God's commandments (sinless) and was the perfect Messiah. I just think it's important to see that this was the begining of the New Covenant that was not bound by the slavery of the law, but we were given grace. In practice, however, it made a new law that is sometimes harder to follow than the written law because your heart is involved. This is very important when considering the Pharisee because although they had the intellectual knowledge of the Mosaic Law as well as the Jewish Cannon, they missed heaven by 10". It's about 10" from your head to your heart. Just as mentioned earlier; it's about a relationship not knowledge, about the heart not actions, and it's about grace and forgiveness not works.

[Lowdown3]

Let's keep things in context here folks. This is a new or potentially new believer asking the question in the original post.

Keep things simple and one step at a time.

[creman]

That was the purpose of two post :). One to the OP and the other just to open discussion. You're probably right that it's the wrong place.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Make a very long story short, I believe in God but from a lot of life experience I have lost faith in churches. My main problem is the people I have run into that have the I am better then you attitude, and say one thing and do another. And then have the gall to tell me how to run my life and tell my wife she shouldn't be with me because she could do better, I dont do drugs and I dont break the law, I am a vet and have been a LEO for a state agency and left the later because the Union pissed me off and I didnt tow there line, I was then unemployed for a several months and that is why the wife's family doesnt like me, unlike them I dont come from money and times were hard, but we made it threw. Guess they left a bad taste in my mouth.
Any idea or advise or just thoughts would be helpful.
Thanks for your time.

In between churches right now because of things so I understand what your going thru a little anyway. I didn't marry my wife for "them" and I don't serve my Lord for "them". Neither relationship is the best but I try and sometimes I fail and sometimes I succeed! Those that act better than me more times than not, are well under me once my eyes open from the glaring squint I'm giving them. I get up and do my best not for "them" but for the Lord, myself and my family. People are people just be you and understand church aint about feeling good it's about the word and what YOU can take from it. I have been married 25+, have 2 of the best kids in the world and have experienced a lot of great things that far outweigh the bad even with all my faults which are many and qualities that are few so there is a lot of hope yet.
Mind Over Matter
I don't mind and they don't matter

[Lowdown3]

Very well said my brother!

[bcdallas]

Sorry if I did not put enough detail in, I have never stopped believing just that I have had a string of luck or bad luck depending on how you look at it in picking churches to try and go to, what I have seen or been exposed to is people that got a lot more money then I do and think down on me because I cant afford the life they live. I have a wife and three step sons and bills that come first, at one point in my life I had a great paying job. but the politics that it required was stressing me out and leading to bad health, so I quit that job and since then have only been able to get jobs that pay the bill's but don't leave much room for anything else. I guess at heart I am trying to find something to expose me to more people that are grounded in the real world, and I have been looking in the City I live in to find it, and all I find here are material people that focus on stuff and not people.
I used to live in a small town that had all of that but I could not pay the bill's living there and that is why I am in the town I am in now and looking for something I cant find.

[creman]

If people are focusing on money (or the church is focusing on money) I would suggest moving on. I hate it when a church makes that its focus, because honestly God doesn't need our money. Church searching is a painful thing because it takes forever to find that one place you love, but once you do it makes it worth it. Just keep looking, there are churches out there that are worth the time and effort.

[Rmplstlskn]

A good group of Believers are rare and far between, and even in that group will be occasional EGR's (Xtra Grace Required)... Keep searching.... But know your faith is directly between you and God, no one else inbetween...

Rmpl