Jim's Quote of the Day?

[monkeybird]

"Now there was no food in all the land; for the famine was very severe, so that the land of Egypt and the land of Canaan languished by reason of the famine. And Joseph gathered up all the money that was found in the land of Egypt and in the land of Canaan, for the grain which they bought; and Joseph brought the money into Pharaoh's house. And when the money was all spent in the land of Egypt and in the land of Canaan, all the Egyptians came to Joseph, and said, "Give us food; why should we die before your eyes? For our money is gone." And Joseph answered, "Give your cattle, and I will give you food in exchange for your cattle, if your money is gone." So they brought their cattle to Joseph; and Joseph gave them food in exchange for the horses, the flocks, the herds, and the asses: and he supplied them with food in exchange for all their cattle that year. And when that year was ended, they came to him the following year, and said to him, "We will not hide from my lord that our money is all spent; and the herds of cattle are my lord's; there is nothing left in the sight of my lord but our bodies and our lands. Why should we die before your eyes, both we and our land? Buy us and our land for food, and we with our land will be slaves to Pharaoh; and give us seed, that we may live, and not die, and that the land may not be desolate." So Joseph bought all the land of Egypt for Pharaoh; for all the Egyptians sold their fields, because the famine was severe upon them. The land became Pharaoh's; and as for the people, he made slaves of them from one end of Egypt to the other. Only the land of the priests he did not buy; for the priests had a fixed allowance from Pharaoh, and lived on the allowance which Pharaoh gave them; therefore they did not sell their land. Then Joseph said to the people, "Behold, I have this day bought you and your land for Pharaoh. Now here is seed for you, and you shall sow the land. And at the harvests you shall give a fifth to Pharaoh, and four fifths shall be your own, as seed for the field and as food for yourselves and your households, and as food for your little ones." And they said, "You have saved our lives; may it please my lord, we will be slaves to Pharaoh." - Genesis 47:13-25

I'm somewhat puzzled about this quote from Jim Rawles of SurvivalBlog.com. Is this an allegory for our times? Are our people selling everything they own so that the government can take care of them?
Why would Joseph, a Godly man, make people slaves?

Someone with knowledge please enlighten me.

[protus]

look at our society now. what do we hold of value. money. money buys what "we" need. when the money is gone then what? what is of value? yourself? your land?your herds?your food? The people sold themselves so as to let "pharoah" save them.Pharoah who had "bought" everything, becuase pharoah had the "food".

of course im looking at the passage as i think jw would have thought it related to modern soceity vs bibical times .

that or im completely wrong, but figured i'd confuse you even more. We each take something away different when reading from the bible imho

[eeyore]

If you are prepared then you won't have to become someones slave.

But a reading of the chapter will show it was not just Gods people but also all the people that did not prepare

[Lowdown3]

This is basically THE REST OF THE STORY from the story of Joseph most folks know from Sunday school. I've never heard a sermon on this at any church. Everyone knows the first half of the story. Joseph is sold as a slave by his brothers to Ismaelite traders. They take him down to Egypt. One of the Pharaoh's top men , Pottifer buys him. Pottifer's wife is a hussy and tries to sleep with Joseph. Joseph refuses. Hell hath no vengenance like a woman scorned LOL, so Pottifer's wife tells Pottifer that Joseph tried to rape her.

Joseph lands in jail for this. Why didn't Pottifer have him killed? Interesting huh? More than likely that would have fit the "crime?" I'm guessing Potiffer knew his wife was a bit of a hussy and couldn't bring himself to condemn the man. But that's just my thoughts ;)

Anywho, a little later on two of Pharoah's servants land in jail also. And they come with some interesting dreams. With the Lord's help, Joseph interprets their dreams. One is to be released and put back in Pharaoh's service, the other killed.

Some time later Joseph is still rotting in jail. Pharoah is troubled by some dreams he has had. One of his servants (that did time with Joseph) finally remembers Joseph and tells the king that there is a man that can interpret your dream.

Joseph interprets the dreams which are a foreshadow of the coming famine to Pharoah. Joseph is set over all the land and was probably in what we could consider a Prime Minister top spot in the government. They start putting up food in the "7 years of plenty" to use during the 7 years of famine.

Usually this is where the story ends in chuch or Sunday school, cause it's got a happy ending at this point.

Note-
verse 15 And when money failed in the land of Egypt, and in the land of Canaan, all the Egyptians came unto Joseph, and said, Give us bread: for why should we die in thy presence? for the money faileth.

This is where all the "you can always BUY food" survivalists of that day would have died or became slaves. When the average American's god (money) fails, what will they do?

Verse 18 gives us more food for thought-

When that year was ended, they came unto him the second year, and said unto him, We will not hide it from my lord, how that our money is spent; my lord also hath our herds of cattle; there is not ought left in the sight of my lord, but our bodies, and our lands:

Only now a days it would read" "When those 2 weeks were ended, they came unto the FEMA camps and said unto the gubmint "you owes me!"


As to your question about Joseph making slaves. Their is a couple ways to look at this.

First is that while Joseph was involved with the government, it was still the Pharoah's kingdom. Did Joseph obviously participate to the point of probably running the whole program? Yes he did. I don't dislike Jews and I understand the "Bless those that bless thee, curse those who curse thee" prophecy but it's important to realize that ALL racial groups have bad stuff in their past, even the Jewish people.

Also, consider that slavery was not considered the crime then as it is today. A man could get behind on his debts and have to become a slave until they were paid off. Their is an eye opener for those of us with big credit card balances huh? If you read the books of Moses you'll find that the Lord did not expressively forbid slavery. Their are quite a few laws regarding it though. Look up Leviticus chapter 25. Quite a bit regarding "Jubilee" and slave ownership.

Further the Law had some pretty strict laws about how to care for servants. If you struck one and they lost an eye, you had to let them go free. One part I always found interesting what the section (doesn't come to mind where right now) where if a servant doesn't WANT to leave you, you took him to the doorpost and using an awl made a HOLE IN HIS EAR LOBE to signify your perpetual ownership. Ear ring as a fashion statement? NO THANKS LOL

Understand I'm not saying I'm for slavery, but quoting what I know from the word of God.

The thing I've always wondered about was what the average Egyptian thought about all this during that time period. Did they think the grains being collected in the 7 years of plenty were a tax from the king? Or did they all hear about the coming famine but none of them put anything up?

You'll notice that some were able to make it the first year, but after that had to come for gubmint help.......

Lot's of lessons in this scripture :) Praise the Lord for it!

[Rmplstlskn]

It shows us that TEOTWAWKI is not ONE EVENT, but many events throughout time... For many Egyptians, it was TEOTWAWKI! We have yet to experience anything like this in my lifetime, not even close. Maybe the dustbowl years in the early 20th century, but even that unlikely. It also shows us what people do when hungry... That government welfare is nothing new, we have just taken it to a whole new and unsustainable level. Now people get FOOD from Pharaoh but do not have to work the lands, nor do anything but fill out a form. It is the FREE Egyptians who now support the SLAVES.

As for slavery, it existed in Scriptural times, and even Scripture deals with proper treatment of slaves... People have a hard time understanding this, just as they do the many wifes some men had back in the day. I don't fully understand it all even, as their time was so different than our time... But TRULY, there is NOTHING new under the sun...

Rmpl

[Rmplstlskn]

One part I always found interesting what the section (doesn't come to mind where right now) where if a servant doesn't WANT to leave you, you took him to the doorpost and using an awl made a HOLE IN HIS EAR LOBE to signify your perpetual ownership. Ear ring as a fashion statement? NO THANKS LOL

But SPIRITUALLY you should rejoice and seek this! It is the VOW of a BONDSERVANT! BONDESERVANT? Sound familiar?

It should! Almost every Disciple of Messiah called himself a BONDSERVANT... It is throughout the New Testament, or what I prefer to call, the NEWER Testament, as concepts in the NT are directly from the OT...

In my understanding of Scripture, if one asks Jesus to accept them, forgive them and they declare "Jesus as Lord," then they are taking the VOW of a BONDSERVANT! Spiritually their EAR (heart) is pierced and they are MARKED as a BONDSERVANT of the Master, FOR LIFE. But this does not mean they were SLAVES, rather it means that they are considered FAMILY of the Master, given authority to "conduct business" for the Master with full authority. Often given the Masters RING, the ring that SEALS agreements and business. A TRUSTED servant...

I PRAY and YEARN to be a pleasing BONDSERVANT to my Father in Heaven... That one day His son will say, "Well done good and faithful SERVANT..."

The whole premise of "say a simple prayer... that's it!" without making Him LORD (Master) and you willingly becoming a SERVANT, is unScriptural and undefendable. Many will come to Him in that day, saying "You are my Lord," but He will say, "Be gone from me lawless ones, for I never knew you..." Without wanting to cause a stink, I must say that I believe the word lawless, in the Greek, is tied to TORAH of the OT, which means, in context, TORAH-less ones... Those who create their own Holy Days, their own rituals and obedience laws, completely divorced from WWJD... WWJD? The one who was THE WORD, who IS TORAH, lived TORAH... as did His Disciples. But that is a whole 'nother thread... or book. My web site has more: WWYD? What Would Yahushua Do?

Rmpl

[rockriver]

a great post.
as lowdown said... my general memory stops at "this is where the story ends."
--
considering the scriptures you've posted have given me many hours of thought and consideration over the last couple of years.
(and i'm getting gray headed!)

it bothered me that joseph (good guy) told the egyptians (heathens) and they listened! and saved up and then got rich.

why wasn't it God's people that joseph told and why didn't they listen and the good guys feed the world??


my best answer.. God sent Joseph to His people! God's people cast him out! sold him out! lied about it!
God had sent His man to God's people! but since they weren't going to listen, he had His ambassador to tell the
heathen! resulting in God's people becoming slaves!
lesson to me... it would be best that i listen to our Creator, our Father. and follow his statutes and commandments
as best i can. and that i try to learn to hear His voice!

[sherldoe]

If you read..in many places it says these things were allowed, i.e., slavery and multiple wives "because the peoples' hearts were hard"., I would think meaning because they were so sinful. Just IMHO.