Solar Power... why so expensive? why so confusing?

[Klayton]

Hey guys. Just had a visit from one of our local Texas Solar Power Installation Contractor.

He left with no signed do***ents, so I am sure he is pissed for wasting an hour + of his time.

But I am sorry, that's a LOT of money.

He looked at our last 3 months of electric bills (wanted last year, but we just moved back to Texas).
Then pulled out his calculator and solar equipment charts.
Then showed me and the Mrs his estimate, with a + or - 5% clause, $20K !!!:confused:

Mind you, this is with NO battery back up, and no generator. Just a solar array, a converter, and something else (I forget what), plus the installation cost.

He claimed it would drop my electric bill approximately 75-80% and have a pay back of approximately 7 years (which according to my calculator is COMPLETELY not possible).

So my question to you guys is this: what the heck are all these "extra" things that he kept mentioning?

I thought all I needed was panels, charger, inverter, a battery bank, and a safety disconnect from the grid. OH, one thing he swore I needed was a remote LCD in order to monitor our solar panel output.

Also, kind of pissed off that the electric company would buy back any "extra" power I created for 3cents, but they sell to me at 7cents. Only thing that I could think of was legalized mafia. They get to make over a 100% profit on MY electricity?!?! Good GOD!!!

OH, he also said I had to have a carpenter (or their installers) move two of my roof vents so they would not shade the panels (they want to put them on my roof).

I really want to get some solar power going, but every time I start looking I get frustrated...

[Lowdown3]

Right when I read "solar contractor" I didn't need to read any more. :)

Yes you can do it yourself if you can follow simple instructions. Yes you can do it for less than $20K to begin with, although you might want to later expand your system- ALWAYS plan for later expansion.

You'll get more mileage to your buck if you first reduce all the electrical loads you can, including but not limited to: get an LP or solar water heater instead of the electric, LP for the range/stove in your kitchen (the old school light the pilot light kind. The new "gas" ones use electric for the spark) and solar and wood for your heat.

Take down these three big draws first and the rest will be easy.

As noted elsewhere in posts- your MAIN components of a solar system are: Panels- Charge Controllers/MPPTs, batteries, inverter, safety devices and genset backup.

Your DC produced power (via solar or wind) will come into the battery bank via the charge controller(s) or MPPT(s). Your AC produced power (via genset or possibly micro hydro) will come in via the inverter to the battery bank. This is why buying a $99 "inverter" doesn't work long term. You need a real AE inverter that also acts as a CHARGER.

[trkarl]

My opinion on a couple of things:

If you are going to pay a contractor then you are going to pay for his time, expertise, and labor and he is in it to make money. This is where you need to look at the equipment he is going to use and then research it. Understand how it works and then decide if it suits your needs.

Like Lowdown has said many times you need to start with the end in mind and decide on how big a system you will ultimately want because you will always want more.

As far as payback time goes remember you are prepaying for 20+ yrs of electricity now. See how much you pay per kwh now and then in 7 yrs let's see if it is higher or lower. If we have a serious dollar crisis your electric bill is going to go sky high anyway and then you will kiss your solar system everyday and treat it like a best friend.

If you are going to backfeed into the grid just remember the electric co exists to make a profit not provide you with electricity. If you think they are ripping you off for only paying 3 cents for your generated power then you don't have to sell it to them. Just build an off grid system.

As far as solar water heaters go I don't think they make much sense. Say you put one on your roof that will generate 5 kwh per day equivalent hot water heater. Why not just put up enough panels to generate the electricity to heat the water instead. In my area that would be about another 1 kw of panels. You won't always use all the hot water the collector makes so this becomes wasted potential energy production. Plus you have the added problem of possible leaks. One home system I was reading about had a huge hot water system with 5 collectors. The guy had to cover I believe 3 of them up in the summer. He also had a huge grid tie system. The collectors were on the ground so why not just put in an equivalent pv array on the ground and get that much more credit from the elec. co instead of wasting all the water collectors?

Once the water is heated you can use the extra power being generated to feed into the grid or for something else. There is no way the wh is going to be running all day unless you leave the hw running. Once it's heats up then the collector just sits there doing nothing.

Here is what I did for my off grid system:
I insulted my tank and hot water lines real well. Then i removed the 4500 watt elements and replaced them with 1500 watt elements. During the day I heat the water when my batteries are absorbing. This way I hardly ever use grid power to heat my water and there is no propane bill.
In a shtf you don't want to rely on propane delivery anyway if you can help it.

The reason I used 1500 watt elements is because my solar system is only 4kw. I just don't think solar collectors for hot water is worth it compared to more panels cost wise. But each has it's benefits over the other.

All this is just my opinion so it is probably worth exactly what you paid for it. Hope it helps.

[Klayton]

Thanks trkarl!! :)

[monkeybird]

For my house in Florida the price would have been over $30,000.00. It was shocking. Thank goodness my son is very handy, and will be able to install a system. However, I looked at it from another point of view. $30,000.00 is about the price of a new SUV/truck/nice car, I'd rather have the solar.

I plan, however, to start small and add on as Lowdown suggests. I understand that the newer solar panels are much more efficient. I wonder how long a solar panel lasts?

[countrydan]

I have been saving for a solar system for over a year. Talked with a contractor last week. We established that I needed 7.5 kwh, I think. He was sure that my $30,000.00 would not be enough, however, he mentioned Federal and state help on this? He did not appear to know much and neither does anyone you talk to. Lowdown probably has more information about this than anyone, I am hoping he will share some specifics, such as type of materials, that is type of panels, converters, inverters, batteries etc., and maybe a good place to purchase and how to install. I am sure this would help many people.

[aware]

I have some great material on DIY solar power if interested. I am unsure as to how I go about sending a file on this forum. Not sure its allowed.

[ridgerunner]

At this time, solar is cost prohibitive to me :( I am still in the planning and research stage. The cost to manufacture the panels and the films are projected to decrease with newer technology. I am really interested in the newer solar films instead of the silica panels. Also, combining solar with goethermal would be the ultimate, "long term", self sufficient solution.

[Jeff]

That

[Bearman202]

Another thing to keep in mind is that here, in the Midwest, we have hail storms. What would a hail storm do to a solar setup? Not good, I think, and the insurance companies would start rubbing their hands together at the idea. Just stuff most people don't mention when they talk about solar....

[1Admin]

Bearman- ours have taken some considerable hail over the last decade without a problem. And a lot of wind and rain also. Very little snow however.

[Bearman202]

Do you cover them when a hail storm is coming? I was wondering how resilient they are. I could also see how snow would be a problem. If no light gets to them, they don't work, right?

[Lowdown3]

The hail was all unexpected. We get weird summertime hail here. Dime sized pieces, they hurt like hades when your outside. We've always run out and pulled cars under trees so I can't compare damage to anything else.

I've kicked, beat with my fist and stood (when I was a GOOOD bit heavier) on our panels without a problem. Quality panels are not going to break easily. One of the Alternate Energy videos (5 or 6 IIRC) shows me beating on one of them.

Don't know about snow load, I'd be more concerned about the rack strength really. I doubt 220 lbs. of snow could build up on one single panel????

[Spock]

its alot easier and cheaper to conserve power than it is to create it. I remember back during the hurricanes people running their gas gen sets for 12-18 hours a day complaining about the cost. everyone whines about their electric bill until they try generating their own power! just checking home despots wood stove prices a 1600 square foot rated stove runs $369 which is probably twice what youd pay in farm and fleet tractor supply type joint. CFLS are pretty inexpensive these days and while pricey LEDS are hiting the home despots and lowes. you can even buy very low power computers that use the intel ATOM ultra low power cpu.

before I'd buy anything for an AE system I'd get the rest of your house hold ready for it.

propane stove, water heater, and dryer
wood stove for heat and some protable indoor propane heaters for those "cold" spots.
led and cfl lighting
the ac unit. how old is it? hunt around on craigslist and your local penny saver/shopper you might find a deal on a newer unit that draws less power.
smart roof. i was at a public park the other day and they had a demonstration of an asphalt roof vs a "smart" roof. the heat build up under the normal roof (the attic) was 113 f. the smart roof only 85f.

you do all of that you might find you only need 2kw instead of 7 or 8.

[tarheelsman71]

This would be my first post....I have been researching solar energy for a few months and finally decided to call someone. I have seen these awesome solar laminate on youtube and called a couple of resellers. With all of the interest in "offgrid", preppers, and survival you would think that it would be easy to purchase these laminates. And it is, so long as you buy the grid-tie system. The prices for each laminate is respectable. 240 dollars for each laminate. The laminate is long and thin and fits perfect on a metal roof. 136 watt per laminate. Price is right for an offgrid cabin with a good southern view of the sky. After talking with the sales reps at 2 of the 5 resellers, I got the feeling that I was getting the run around. They told me that the laminates would not work unless you had a grid-tied inverter. In the end, I asked one of the reps if the government was subsidizing them to not sell the offgrid kits with the laminates and while he did not tell me yes, he did not deny it either. He said that the connectors on the laminates are proprietary and there isnt a way to make it work with another inverter. I could so see that being the case. Oh well.