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culverts use corrugated steel pipe and come in sizes from less than a foot diameter up to 10 feet or more. an 8 foot dia pipe is just about perfect for a shelter. all you have to add are end plates and furnishings. such culvert pipes are used under roadways with heavy traffic driving over them. if they can stand up to that they'll hold back the earth pressure without a problem.
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"Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. I may get killed with my own gun, but he's gonna have to beat me to death with it, cause it's going to be empty." - Clint Smith -
Sometimes information just fall in your lap.
A co-worker ran into a friend this weekend that works for a company that has, for the last decade, been burying shipping containers in this area. He said that they never have any problems and that they practically never support the walls or tops. The reason that they don't have problems is because of the high clay content that we have in the soil in this area.
Apparently clay has a certain amount of natural structural stability to it, The only time that they support the walls or top is:
1. If there is a lot of rocks or sand where they are digging. It seems that rock and sand shifts over time applying more and more pressure to the walls.
2. There is a large tree nearby. Eventually the root system of the tree will apply pressure to the walls pushing them in.
And the only reason they support the roof is if they bury the container more than 2 to 3 feet deep.
They way that they support the walls and roof is by using galvanized 6" steel pipe lined vertically around the sides and across the top. Then they use u-bolts to fasten the pipe to a "backbone ridge" that is fastened to the walls and roof (I admit I'm a little fuzzy on this detail --- apparently there in a backbone that is on some containers). My co-worker asked his friend if it was his container, how would he support the walls. He answered:
He would take good quality railroad ties and line them vertically around the walls and on the roof. Then he would go inside the container and drill a hole through the walls and RR ties. Then take galvanized #10 lag bolts with large washers and tighten. Before tightening, put a generous amount of silicon caulk around the bolts and washers since you are violating the watertight integrity of the container. The only thing I would do extra is coat the bolts, nuts, and washers with something like tar.
The advantage of doing it this way is cost. I can get good quality RR ties from a local source for $4.00 apice and #10 galvanized lag bolts for a little over $1.50. So for 23 RR ties, 115 bolts, nuts, washers, caulk, and tar, the extra cost is around $300.00 to $400.00.
The disadvantage of doing it this way is that eventually the RR ties will rot. But, the railroads have been putting RR ties in the ground for over 150 years so they have a lot of experience of how to get the most out of them. So, they should last several decades (longer than my life expectancy) and by the time they rot, the clay will have time to pack down to a point that it won't shift and apply more pressure to the sides.
I have asked my co-worker to get me a phone number so I can talk to his friend myself. Just want to confirm some details. Also may see how much they would charge to do the entire project. Depending on the cost, I may let them do it to save time. May take a few weeks to get info back. Just became real busy. Male sheep head butted wife and broke her leg Tuesday. Going to have sheep stew soon.
Will post info when I get it. Thanks for the comments. Keep them comming.Comment
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Thanks for the extra info rhinoaa. Let us know how the sheep stew tastes too. I have had barbecued goat, haven't tasted lamb."It's a trap!!!!" -- Admiral AckbarComment
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If you were to dig a hole that is close to the size of the container, and slide the container into that hole, you would not create a huge amount of sidewall pressure. These containers are a lot stronger that what some are indicating, burying them has been done successfully for years. The only concerns I would personally have is:
1. Water table- if you are to bury the container, would it be under water at some point in the 20/50/100 year high water table. Yes, you can work around this problem with gravel and french drains, but creating a berm and planting blackberries on the unsightly berm may be a better option.
2. Purpose- The stated purpose was a create an inexpensive ROOT CELLAR, and a shipping container will make an excellent STORAGE ROOM with a constant 55 degree room (if situated properly) for the long term storage of canned goods, grains, guns, ammo, and survival equipment. However, a ROOT CELLAR is for a different purpose, a ROOT CELLAR should be humid, as it is for the long term storage of vegetables and root crops, a dirt floor (not concrete, not aluminum, and not a sealed room). So this point is to raise the question... what do you want to store in this room?
I personally will have a large root cellar, deep in the ground, on a north slope, very close to the house, with a place to store ice, that is harvested each winter, and stored in sawdust for the Summer, this will keep the root cellar humid and around 40 degrees year round.
I will also build a storage room (3 containers in a row actually...) underground, with a larger hole, on a bed of pea gravel, and a french drain for extra drainage in case of flooding. I will have the entrance to the containers be opened toward the north (I'm in Missouri, USA) to avoid direct sunlight. The containers will not create a berm, but will be ventilated. I will place a straw bales for minor added support and for added insulation around the outside walls, and roof of the containers, with a thick poly sheeting on top of the straw bales, to protect them from moisture, then I will back fill in the hole, and with about 3 feet of soil on top of the straw bales, the minor settling will be adjusted by planting perennial fruit bearing plants such as thornless blackberries and raspberries. I will enter the containers through a wooden set of stairs, concealed in a garden shed, so I would build all of your shelving and place most of your heavy supplies and containers before you backfill and place the 'garden shed' on the entrance. Light is a simple issue, LED lights are expensive but they provide an incredible amount of light for the amount of energy they consume. they can be plugged into the battery backup system in the house.Link removedComment
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chris3win, have you done up a graphic for this? I would love to see this more thought out. I would think the garden shed hidden entrance would be a cool touch. :)Comment
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THAT WHICH DOES NOT KILL ME MAKES ME STRONGERComment
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Just found another link with some more info. It's at:
www.thesurvivalpodcast.com done on November 30, 2010.
It has some good information by someone that has done it and he sounds like he knows what he is talking about. Briefly, he says that the sides, though a concern, are not a major problem. But the roof definitely is.
If anyone is considering doing this, it is worth listening to. I still have not been able to confirm the info that I put in my last post. If I can, I'll let everyone know.Comment
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I didn't read this whole thread, so forgive me if I am restating something. Any root cellar needs an air vent for proper air exchange. If it's sealed off, it won't help you preserve any food.
I would encourage you to do some research on pouring a pad. Honestly it's not hard, and I know that if you do the research and maybe practice on a small pad somewhere, you can do it. Same thing goes for block walls. If you drystack the cynder blocks, and coat the outside and inside with fiber enhanced stucco base your wall will be much stronger than using mortar to "glue" the blocks together. I would have to think that the materials needed to do such a job can come in under the price of a shipping container. Also, I don't know where you are located, but in CO shipping containers are almost 2G for a 20 footer.
Hope your project works out!Comment
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This site was mentioned on Survival Blog this morning, although his project is a lot more building then we are talking it seems to be very informational.
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interesting, alot of weight on the bottom container, and it only looked like he reinforced it with 2x4 interior wall studs...Comment
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found a youtube video of someone using a shipping container underground...
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Not a bad video. He used a LOT of reinforcing. Steel ibeams across the top, etc. Also it looked like he had rock on the side. A hard mud ball is the closest we have to rock down here!
For $12,500. he could have put in a culvert shelter.www.homesteadingandsurvival.com
www.survivalreportpodcast.com
"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed..."Comment
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I was thinking the same thing Lowdown3... does anybody have any pictures of a culvert shelter? I do not think I have ever seen one...Comment
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WOW thanks Benn Gleck. VERY NICE!Comment
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