Agriculture post major event

[Lowdown3]

Let's start a discussion regarding agriculture post MAJOR event. I.e, large scale EMP, etc.

Will it continue? How will it continue?

Your thoughts on how things will work?

Most of us plan/prepare and maybe currently do some form of what might be called near subsistence farming- growing and raising enough or almost enough to survive on. That could be one aspect of what we discuss but what about more major agricultural endeavors. How will they work out when commercial fertilizer factories are done, when the local John Deere dealer can get you parts in a day or two or just more basic- when fuel runs out and there is no power for irrigation.

Share your thoughts.

[rockriver]

fuel - I figure most folks on here have small tractor (except those that live in high rise condos!)
these would be very miserly on fuel.. and even those folks who live in a condo probably have a big tank of fuel at their BOL where the tractor is located.

fertilizer- most small scale homesteaders are already fortifying their soil with compost and huge piles of leaves, limbs, chips, waste.

large scale operations... many have 10 to 30k gallons of fuel on hand. if they can get the seed, they can plant... hmm.. emp?
most have recent year tractors... could their computers be zapped? likely...one farmer near me has 10 to 20 year old tractors that look brand new, because of his careful cleaning and maintenance practices.... his are more likely to survive.

reverting to high levels of manual labor may be required... but, and a big BUT, I don't think the eaters will want to work to eat...
they are too vested in the gimme dat food program...

[Bill Foster]

I have been experimenting with what works and what doesn’t for the past 3-years. I’m not wasting my time on tomatoes anymore. My potatoes do well as do beans and cucs. No room for corn, besides, they are fertilizer hogs so I hear. A couple of my neighbors have horses and share the excrement bounty. I hope that they would continue the practice in bad times. In dry weather, I have found that 55 gallons of saved rainwater between rains was not enough for my small garden. I’ll go for 100 this next season. BTW, manual labor only, no machinery.

[Lowdown3]

I think major agriculture as we know it will be gone within a short period of time.

Big Farmer Jones may have big equipment and a couple hundred or even thousand gallons of fuel, but that's only going to last so long.

What about the security situation in his area?

One old guy running a big green machine in a huge field preparing soil for conventional farming methods- that's not an easy target or anything. People will be doing stupid things that don't make sense. We think "that equipment is now irreplaceable. Joe Blow looter with a hungry belly doesn't give a rip about tomorrow, about how that piece of equipment could help "the community" etc. He just thinks "this old farmer has equipment, he has food, kill him, get the food." Farmer Jones is either sniped then or jumped as he puts the combine to bed for the night.

Always comes back to need for serious manpower and serious security.

Most conventional farming leaves the soil somewhat depleted. Hard to do "organic" on a large scale- we found it hard to do "organic" on a smaller scale with no outside inputs. A small section of corn took EVERY bit of manure from a dozen rabbits, chicken litter and goat manure applied every couple weeks during the growing season. Corn is a high input crop yes, but may be many people's choice for grain after the fact.

Harvesting wheat by hand- did that, it sucks, again the need for lots of manpower comes up.

Inputs- fertilizer, lime, at times need for things to stop bugs. We can store some of these but eventually they are going to run out. Plant enough that some losses to bugs isn't the end of the world. We never were without fruit due largely just to the sheer quantity of trees we have. Even later as trees started to fail, we were able to stagger new ones in. There is a certain quality about QUANTITY.

Most of us are talking about subsistence farming here- growing enough for just us to keep us alive. In reality that is hard enough and will be a major wake up call for most- it was for us. But agriculture in the sense of producing more than just subsistence farming/living is a whole nuther subject.

Manpower- full time jobs for many people. The sit behind a desk types are going to be in for some crap. The "I have three cans of beans, I plan to not just survive but THRIVE" IDIOTS (and they are idiots to say that having no idea of the work that goes into this sort of living) are going to be in for a helluva wake up call. They are going to have to find their package quick and learn to work long days, stay ahead of tasks, etc. That means most Americants will probably die off...

Inputs- I experimented beginning years ago with rotating our small goat herd through fenced large garden areas. An area was harvested, then the goats were turned into that area. They ate the residue, dropped manure where it was needed and kept foliage trimmed. They were rotated to the next section as that was harvested.

It worked to an extent, but goats don't produce that much manure. Trying the same with cattle may be an option. If you have to feed hay in the winter (when you might not be growing anything in garden areas anyway), try to feed it in garden areas, staggering any hay rounds where manure will be spread out. Manure, trampled hay will be where you need it, trampled into the ground via cow hooves.

[rockriver]

our garden spot was fenced when the deer quit nibbling and called all their relatives over for a buffet.
--
then some life changes limited our time to garden.
--
I just took the 6' fence down! no it didn't completely stop the deer, but it slowed them down a lot..
--
emphasis has changed to things that grow every year.

but, this is just us. we are cutting back the garden, but will probably work to keep the ground in good shape.

[protus]

Once fuel and modern implements can not be used .
There won't be welfare...and the unemployment rate Will drop drastically.
If not.
Folks starve ...
Or
It's a one vs all fend for yourself.

But post apocalypse.
Farmer Bob better have good help..that is well treated,, a good on site QRF ..and he should diversify his crop. Be it adding live stock ,hunting/fishing...and open trade venues......

It's like feudal lite all over again...now...where's mah castle...lol

[rockriver]

I have some associates that are in 2 very different mindsets.
group 1 have awesome skill at arms. they feel this ability guarantees them whatever supplies they need. primarily they would be considered "lone rangers." but also if they act out their mind set, I think most would call them "raiders."

group 2. have awesome skill at arms/hunting/farming/ and live on and work for very very large farms/plantations. they are all very loyal to the farm/plantation. they are very careful not to talk about defensive capability of their farm/plantation.

it is my humble opinion that group 1 should not bother group 2.