Retreat Defense- getting started

[1Admin]

Retreat Defense- fortifying positions Copyright 2005 Robert Henry

There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding what exactly is needed as far as protection against small arms fire.

Most standard "stick frame" homes will not stop most projectiles. A fact you may need to recognize. I always laugh watching news coverage of SWAT teams assaulting some perp in some trailer park somewhere. Invariably you see the SWAT guys "stack up" right outside the door of the perp's residence.

I wonder if it is their training or if they just don't realize that standard walls will not stop any projectiles. "Joe Dirt" perpetrator could be sitting on the couch of his trailer, notice the guys "stacking up" and wound a few of them with rounds from a .25 Phoenix simply by unloading it through the wall.

Your standard "stick frame" home is made up of a 2x4 or 2x6's, 5/8" or 3/4" plywood, some insulation and sheet rock on the inside and a vapor barrier plus some exterior siding on the outside such as vinyl siding, stucco, brick veneer, a masonry board type product, etc. Practically no "meat" as far as something strong enough to actually stop bullets.

If your retreat home or the home you plan on being in when TSHTF is like this, you need to make provisions now to fortify the structure when the times comes as well as preparation of fighting positions so that you do not have to fight out of the house.

I've always been a firm believer that the true first line of defense for your retreat is your regular and aggressive patrolling of the area within a few miles of your retreat. More on that later.

So it's time to start figuring out "how" you are going to fortify what structure you currently have when TSHTF.

Below, I've listed some common materials and the amount of the material needed to protect against one burst of five rounds of 7.62mm fire at 100 yards.

Material type Thickness in Inches

Solid wall Brick 18"
Solid wall concrete (not reinforced) 12

Concrete reinforced 6"

Stone Masonry 12"

Timber 36"

Wood 24"
**Not sure what distinction was made between timber and wood.

Walls of Loose materials between
boards

Brick, rubble 12
Clay, dry 36"
Gravel, small crushed 24"
Loam, dry 24"
Sand, dry 12"

Sandbags filled with:

Brick, rubble 20"
Clay, dry 40"
Gravel, small crushed 20"
Loam, dry 30"
Sand, dry 20"

Parapets made of:

Clay 42"
Loam 36"
Sand 24"

In new construction perhaps the easiest way to obtain some ballistic protection would be with block walls, inserting rebar in every cell and then pouring solid with grout mix. A .308 shot at 10 yards at this barely penetrates about 1/4" of the solid mass.

[LizardKing]

Great post.

I've been wondering if there'd be any real difference between filled block and poured walls. Block would probably be substantially cheaper.

[Lowdown3]

Filled could mean sand or gravel.

Around here the prisons are built with block, then poured solid with grout mix.

If it works for a prison...... ;)

[LizardKing]

Sand, gravel or any loose fill wouldn't work too good. The first round would shatter the block web and allow the fill to pour out, then the 2nd could take out the other side of the web. It would have to be filled with concrete, IMHO.

[crossbow]

I think timber would be log cabin material, thick like 8-10 inches and wood would be just one of the common framed houses made of 2X4s

[crossbow]

Great post.

I've been wondering if there'd be any real difference between filled block and poured walls. Block would probably be substantially cheaper.

block filled is a lot cheaper, but for a real strong structure, you could always put rebar right in the footings and drop the blocks over the bar and then fill the blocks also

[eeyore]

Crossbow is correct, filling block walls is cheaper and putting rebar in the footing and having tie the wall to the footing is a lot stronger then just laying the block on the footing.

Filling the wall with grout ( or cement mix) is not more trouble then filling the walls with sand or gravel, although a little more expensive.

[Lowdown3]

Crossbow is correct, filling block walls is cheaper and putting rebar in the footing and having tie the wall to the footing is a lot stronger then just laying the block on the footing.

Filling the wall with grout ( or cement mix) is not more trouble then filling the walls with sand or gravel, although a little more expensive.

Yep. You can rent or have something come out with a pump machine to do it. We used a pump thing that had about a six inch hose that we dragged from cell to cell.

It's interesting, you drive around the country and you end up seeing dozens of old houses and homesteads from easily 20-100 years ago. All of the wood ones are collapsed in on themselves or in varying stages of collapse. The masonry ones may have their roofs gone but the walls are still intact after decades.

Worse case scenario, that offers you something that you can camp in while you start rebuilding that still offers you some ballistic protection.

[610Alpha]

I have a block wall basement and I wish I didn't. Hydrostatic pressure hasn't been nice to it. I would rather do a solid reinforced concrete wall, i think they call them ICF http://www.icfhomes.com/. I have no idea on the cost, my guess is they aren't cheap.

So how does one protect their home ballistically without spending 2 arms and a leg to do it? Do you stockpile a bunch of sandbags, sand or 1/2" minus gravel and wait for TSTHTF? We all can't afford Hardened Structures to come build our retreat let along the local ICF contractor.

[Lowdown3]

I looked into the ICF stuff. I know someone in Florida that went that route. I couldn't find anyone up here that did it.

Also from a "pay cash as you go" perspective, the block ended up better for me. A concrete slab and block walls can sit for a long time in between getting more bucks together for the next phase. You can go and buy 100 blocks at a time, take them home, lay them and then wait for the next paycheck to do some more.

Sandbags are the way to go. I have an old article somewhere about reinforcing an already built home that Jim Rawles used on SurvivalBlog a long time back, I'll see if I can find it and post it.

[eeyore]

ICF blocks are Styrofoam blocks that you fill with concrete. I had a friend that used them, he wanted them for hurricane reasons (or so he said). It gives you the R value and the strong walls in one package. But what he also found out is once the are poured it is very difficult to change them.

A while back i looked into a trowel able type material like stucco that has 8000 psi strength,
http://ogolstorage.com/gigacrete/specs_demos.html This was like something i was looking at "StuccoMax"

[eeyore]

LD3 said in the original post

Your standard "stick frame" home is made up of a 2x4 or 2x6's, 5/8" or 3/4" plywood, some insulation and sheet rock on the inside and a vapor barrier plus some exterior siding on the outside such as vinyl siding, stucco, brick veneer, a masonry board type product, etc. Practically no "meat" as far as something strong enough to actually stop bullets

It amazed me a couple of years ago i was helping a friend covered his walk in basement entrance (it clogs up with leaves and floods the basement, but that is another story). When we were trying to put a ledger board on the side of his house. I realized that under the siding was only thin sheet of thermo-ply (1/8 cardboard like material [http://www.berryplasticsbpg.com/prod...rmo-ply-total]) insulation and studs. I realized that they had switched from ply wood on the roof and siding of houses to go to OSB [http://www.berryplasticsbpg.com/prod...rmo-ply-total], but not this stuff. Better check your house when you buy it and realize what you are buying. It made me think how easy it would be to just go thought the siding and come into the house, the metal door on the front with long screws and extra support does not mean much if it is that easy to go through the side.

Both OSB and Thermo ply are junk (imo) buyer beware

[1Admin]

LD3 said in the original post


It amazed me a couple of years ago i was helping a friend covered his walk in basement entrance (it clogs up with leaves and floods the basement, but that is another story). When we were trying to put a ledger board on the side of his house. I realized that under the siding was only thin sheet of thermo-ply (1/8 cardboard like material [http://www.berryplasticsbpg.com/prod...rmo-ply-total]) insulation and studs. I realized that they had switched from ply wood on the roof and siding of houses to go to OSB [http://www.berryplasticsbpg.com/prod...rmo-ply-total], but not this stuff. Better check your house when you buy it and realize what you are buying. It made me think how easy it would be to just go thought the siding and come into the house, the metal door on the front with long screws and extra support does not mean much if it is that easy to go through the side.

Both OSB and Thermo ply are junk (imo) buyer beware

Couldn't agree more! +1,000

[Bearman202]

I've been thinking about this one lately. My bugout location is off several dirt roads, and I was thinking of building a kind of bunker to provide some protection just in case. I did a little research, and came up with the numbers of blocks needed. Then I started wondering if I might be just as well off getting a dozer and shoving dirt to provide a berm. I could then put a roof on it, leaving some firing slits. The difference is that from a distance, the dirt berm would look like a small hill, whereas a bunker looks like a bunker. The dirt would provide more "ballistic resistance," since some ammo will go right through a cement block. I think by using the berm approach, I could make three pits for the price of one blockhouse. Comments?

[protus]

I've been thinking about this one lately. My bugout location is off several dirt roads, and I was thinking of building a kind of bunker to provide some protection just in case. I did a little research, and came up with the numbers of blocks needed. Then I started wondering if I might be just as well off getting a dozer and shoving dirt to provide a berm. I could then put a roof on it, leaving some firing slits. The difference is that from a distance, the dirt berm would look like a small hill, whereas a bunker looks like a bunker. The dirt would provide more "ballistic resistance," since some ammo will go right through a cement block. I think by using the berm approach, I could make three pits for the price of one blockhouse. Comments?

railroad ties.
stack em. lay em like Lincoln logs for your ports.
berm dirt up to it
put a roof on it if you want.

simple and easy.
but a solid structure would be best.