Solar AE buying guide/things to consider

[610Alpha]

I am hoping to collect the info here in this thread and then make a blog article. 1Admin's podcast on Aug. 7th mentioned some things that prompted me to do the thread.

Look at the warranty.

Kyocera - http://www.solar-energy-for-homes.co...ar-panels.html
20 year power output warranty and a five year workmanship warranty.

Sharp - http://www.sharpusa.com/SolarElectri...rProducts.aspx
ND-Q230F4 module is covered by both the Sharp 10-year warranty on materials or
workmanship as well as the 25-year limited warranty on power output.

hopefully those that have experience will chime in about what to look for when looking at solar panel data sheets cause I have no idea what to pay attention to and if the numbers are good or bad.

AC/DC converters will need to be talked about as well as batteries. I will pull some info from Joel Skousens book "The Secure Home".

[rockriver]

thanks. i'm trying to learn. and saving hard..

[1Admin]

Prices have finally came down on panels. Kyocera isn't the most inexpensive any more. However if the difference is slightly more, well I KNOW how Kyocera deals with their warranty and I will continue to give them business.

[610Alpha]

Something else to consider:

Put it on your roof or on the ground?

If on the ground how far from the house?

Would it be feasible to do an out building that would house the inverter and batteries and send the electricity to the house in AC form? I thought that DC loses over long distance and thought that supplying AC from the out building to the house would alleviate this.

[SeldomSeenSlim]

Something else to consider:

Put it on your roof or on the ground?

Both work just fine, but a ground mount is better IMHO. For one, you aren't making holes in your roof. There isn't any concern about the gap between the panels and the roof and excess heat. Also ground mounts are typically easier to get to. All depends on your house and the room you have to work with. Raised ground mounts, top of a pole or flat raised up on legs are two that are very good.

If on the ground how far from the house?

Would it be feasible to do an out building that would house the inverter and batteries and send the electricity to the house in AC form? I thought that DC loses over long distance and thought that supplying AC from the out building to the house would alleviate this.

This is really all one question. Yes, DC has voltage drop more than AC. Depending on your panel array you can be up to 96vdc (I think that's the max current controllers can handle), so voltage drop is lessened. That is with a MPPT style charge controller. Still, the best run is the shortest run. Both AC and DC experience voltage drop, so the same applies to both.

The more consolidated the utilities the better. The panels should be as close as possible without being blocked by a structure, tree, etc and also close to the water and gas supply. An outbuilding works well for this. Water supply, water pump, genset, AE setup, propane outside... everything in one spot. There's no one correct answer how to go about it, but typically grouping your utilities together is usually more efficient.

[610Alpha]

Kyocera has a 4 step guide which I found to be helpful. The say its a 5 step guide but the 5th step is just working with one their dealers.

http://www.kyocerasolar.com/residential-solutions/mygen/

I also found a savings estimator on Sharp's website:

http://sharpusa.cleanpowerestimator.com/sharpusa.htm

[trkarl]

Depending on your panel array you can be up to 96vdc (I think that's the max current controllers can handle), so voltage drop is lessened. That is with a MPPT style charge controller.
.

Midnite solar makes mppt CCs that can take up to 250 voc.

Xantrex XW-MPPT 80-600 can use voltages up to 600 vdc.

My midnite solar and both of my Outback CCs handle up to 150 voc.

[610Alpha]

Ok so I have been doing some research and looking at some numbers. I found some Keyocera 315 Watt panels that are $1.14/watt. I found my monthly usage average for 12 months looked at my region and came up with a rough idea of how much energy and how many panels I would need. Before I catch some flack...disclaimer this does not include any batteries, inverters, charge controllers, cables...etc. This is just the cost of the PV panels compared to what we use and spend right now. Note: the break even number is in years....9.08 years.

[jimmycthemd]

Did you take into account that there are tax incentives for making your house more energy efficient?

I don't have the links here but here's what I found in my area:

Federal tax credit: 30% Expires in 2016
State tax credit (GA): 35% Expires in 2014
total: 65%


I just started looking. The requirements are that the improvements are 'energy certified' and the tax credits can include the labor.

[610Alpha]

Did you take into account that there are tax incentives for making your house more energy efficient?

I don't have the links here but here's what I found in my area:

Federal tax credit: 30% Expires in 2016
State tax credit (GA): 35% Expires in 2014
total: 65%


I just started looking. The requirements are that the improvements are 'energy certified' and the tax credits can include the labor.

I hadn't looked at the credits...the federal credit would mean the Gov wouldn't get as much from me...so let me ask you would you rather me pay in more or less in taxes?

Just playing devils advocate on this is all....makes u think though

[jimmycthemd]

I hadn't looked at the credits...the federal credit would mean the Gov wouldn't get as much from me...so let me ask you would you rather me pay in more or less in taxes?

Just playing devils advocate on this is all....makes u think though

OK...this decision is a work in progress. I'm still looking at whether we get enough sun here to make it worth my time/effort. Here are my thoughts on the tax credits:

Pros:

1) By adding solar PV cells you are taking a load off of our already fragile and overloaded power grid. That seems to be worth the one-time tax credit.
2) By using less power from the grid, you are potentially reducing the amount of greenhouse gasses...I'm not a socialist but do believe in having a social conscience.
3) For me, I've been gainfully employed and paying my fair share of taxes since I was 16. That's 42 years, seven of which were military service. I don't feel guilty taking the one-time credit as I've paid my share long-term...I don't consider it a hand-out or entitlement.

Cons:
I'm not numbering this as I can only see one con. We are now borrowing 40 cents of every dollar our government spends. This isn't helping the budget. That's offset some by the fact that I don't see either party spending my tax dollars as judiciously as I would. There's a lot of waste so that money probably wouldn't be spent wisely. I don't know if that's rationalizing or not...I'm still struggling with that part.

As you can see, I've thought of the ramifications, just haven't made up my mind yet. The folks I talk to at work say I should take the money and run, but I'm not that kind of person. I have to be able to look myself in the mirror (and answer to God when it's time) and feel comfortable with the decision. I guess I'm not one of the folks that think that I'm entitled to screw the government out of all I can. I have to believe that the tax credit is not only legal but ethical.

BTW, I'm glad you asked so others here I respect can chime in with their 2 cents. What are your thoughts on the tax credits?

[610Alpha]

Although I haven't been paying & working as long as you have...I do agree with the Pros as well as the Cons...and like you I know many of my coworkers would say the same thing. I don't believe I am entitled to anything and I like having roads and paying for our military...I think I might do a phased approach start with a genset, batteries, and inverter. Then add PV a little at a time. Or some variation of that. I don't have the roof or yard space for it right now anyways...I was just doing some research and it has now turned into a lesson on ethics/morals...

What makes tough is that we try to be a good steward of what God has given us and we give unto Caesar and Caesar goes and wastes it all....

[jimmycthemd]

"What makes tough is that we try to be a good steward of what God has given us and we give unto Caesar and Caesar goes and wastes it all.... "

The thing here is that it's Caesar that's giving us permission to do this. We're not unethically denying Caesar his due. I do, however, agree with the roads, military, police, fire...the list goes on for legitimate service provided via our tax dollars. I do have a problem with the 'entitlements' that a large segment of our population abuses.

As far as the generator, I see that as a short-term solution as I live in a subdivision and can't store thousands of gallons of fuel. Solar is, however, much more expensive for the capacity but needs only sun. Again, I'm still weighing the options. I've only been prepping for about 6 months and have many, many areas that need improvement but this is one that definitely increases my sustainability both in an emergency situation and in day-to-day life. Each of these two options also have their OPSEC considerations. I just hope I don't get a case of paralysis by analysis (over thinking it).

[610Alpha]

"What makes tough is that we try to be a good steward of what God has given us and we give unto Caesar and Caesar goes and wastes it all.... "

The thing here is that it's Caesar that's giving us permission to do this. We're not unethically denying Caesar his due. I do, however, agree with the roads, military, police, fire...the list goes on for legitimate service provided via our tax dollars. I do have a problem with the 'entitlements' that a large segment of our population abuses.

As far as the generator, I see that as a short-term solution as I live in a subdivision and can't store thousands of gallons of fuel. Solar is, however, much more expensive for the capacity but needs only sun. Again, I'm still weighing the options. I've only been prepping for about 6 months and have many, many areas that need improvement but this is one that definitely increases my sustainability both in an emergency situation and in day-to-day life. Each of these two options also have their OPSEC considerations. I just hope I don't get a case of paralysis by analysis (over thinking it).

Yeah I have to watch out for the paralysis by analysis too.

The reason I was considering the genset/batteries was based on an article here: http://www.buildanark.net/index.php?...Generator.html

Plus watching the Alternate Energy vids done by Surviavl Report. Granted I don't have the space for tons of fuel but to run the genset to charge batteries and shut it off for a while....might be feasible.

[610Alpha]

How to figure out how many watts you need.

W = 1000