what if... your state went bankrupt!!

[rockriver]

what a crazy, off the wall, comment! well, that's ridiculous. look, i've got a college degree. any educated person would know that is impossible. huh! they would never do that. it would be illegal! before that ever happened, the federal gov't would bail them out!
we are a Christian nation, and i trust in God and he would not let something like that happen, unless it was after the rapture!

i have had all the above statements told to me by intelligent, haughty, smarter than anyone else folks.

but, it is time to consider the consequences of just such an event. mitch mcconnell, a republican has made such the suggestion... i have not read the whole article... just reading the headlines was enough for the moment.

what if, the only effect was that some long term state government obligations were reduced, if not completely eliminated.
for instance.

retirement accounts.
state employees, state patrol, mindless office workers, welfare workers, school teachers!! what if their retirement payouts were cut in half?
i can see the comments. as long as it wasn't happening to your family. the editorial in the newspaper and on tv ---
" did you know that we must make some painful cuts in order to balance the budget and maintain a solid financial position for our state. some members of your community have just profited too much. here, we will show you some examples. see this picture of this $250,000 home... two retired school employees live here! and look at the vehicles in the driveway. a ford platinum 4x4. that cost over $60,000 and a lexus. can you believe that! we have done some thorough investigating... and to protect their privacy we won't name them or give their address, but check in your community to see for yourself.. they are living the wealthy lifestyle! the husband was a principal and his retirement income is over 70,000/year. the wife's retirement pay is over $50,000/year. and they do nothing to get that money from the tax payers... this is shameful... "

turning one part of society against another...

then the reporter continues... "cutting their pensions in half won't cause any problem for them at all! "

i wonder if the state filing bankruptcy will be cutting and or eliminating all the welfare programs that they give out to folks that never worked and never paid taxes, and just sat on the porch feeding steaks to their dogs, that they bought on their welfare card.

and, just for a moment, pretend that they did eliminate all the freebies... and a few days later, the free stuff crowd, encouraged by their leadership decided to shout and holler about their rights, and how they weren't going to sit there, stand there, lay there, while all their checks were stopped. what would be the effect of that rowdy and mad crowd that night.. i mean, they needs their drugs, and their weed. how can they get their food to support their babies and their habit if they don't get their check? how do you think that they will respond?

things could escalate in a hurry.

[Gordon]

We have states now that are technically bankrupt I would say. Illinois has unfunded pensions. California continues to give away taxpayer's money to illegal and bums. If the Great Gapped Tooth Walrus get elected governor, like she almost did this time, Georgia will be on the road to the poorhouse. Legacy costs for pensions, both private and public, are costing more than ever predicted or imagined. Expecting somebody, either .gov or your union, to care and provide for you cradle to grave won't work. The tab has to be paid at some point.

[Lowdown3]

I have a bunch of friends that are teacher and admins in the publix indoctrination system. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE to mess with them about their truly magical pension plans with 80 and 100% of their income if they stay in the system 15 or 20 years. I LOVE to remind them of our astronomical property tax rates in a poor area of the country here in relation to that.

Meanwhile, every country "Karen" in the area that feeds off the teat of the state/fed publix edumacation system likes to tout how "we gots such great schools 'roun here" (as if saying it that way and saying you are a teacher isn't implication enough...) Yep, such great skewls... I've worked with their kids, I've heard their 6th graders try to read simple words and flounder. One even asked how to pronounce the word "the"- True story.

Yep, money going into public education is well spent.... LOL

[rockriver]

formula for teachers in georgia.
work for 30 years... the trigger number =30 years
then 30 x 2 = 60
60% of salary average for last ? ( i forgot the number of years... maybe 3 or 5)
so if a teacher's last 5 year average was 50k
(and to be 50, teacher probably had advanced degrees)
then .60 x 50k = 30 thousand per year.
then if the state approves the cola. they will get a 3% bump each year...
also, if the teacher adds extra years. they get an extra 2% for each year.
in above example.. if teacher works 31 years . the retirement would pay 62% of 50k.

this is the big carrot that helps keep teachers working when they could leave the field of education and go elsewhere and make more money doing something else.

there are some old state of georgia retirees that worked under a plan that if they worked for ?xx years they could get a pension that was much better than the teacher plan...
i know of some older retirees (age in 70's ) that are receiving near 100% of salary.
if you see two old geezers talking and both are retired, the question will be.
" joe, are you old plan?" joe will smile and say "yeah, sure am. too bad they changed that!"
other guy who started a few years after joe... is on new plan... good, but not as good as joe's "old plan"

the current teacher retirement plan in georgia.. is well funded... it is a stand alone plan... the state legislature has tried hard to take control of the TRS (teacher retirement system) and to blend it (join, combine, merge) the trs with other georgia retirement plans... the teachers paid into the trs heavily every month they worked. many of the other state plans are not so well funded.

in a bankruptcy situation in georgia... that big trs account is something that the state or courts may try to steal to help offset other liabilities. the state has been trying to steal/abscond with for many years already.

[Bill Foster]

I am one of those dastardly ejukashun retirees. I have already had the conversation with Ms. Foster about the possibility of having my retirement pay cut if the state robs the fund. Fortunately, we have no debt except for taxes. I planned on staying in the private sector until the last 10-15 yrs of employment. As a state employee in education, I payed no SS and the money went to TRS. ‘‘Tis true Rock, it is a stand-alone program, not taxpayer funded that is market invested. Having worked in the private sector for 25+ years, I was also vested in SS. We don’t live a high life but we aren’t hungry. BTW, where I worked, advanced degrees meant nothing as far as pay. The only way to get more pay was to become a Dean or VP. I was one of the “challenged” classes for that.

[Lowdown3]

formula for teachers in georgia.
work for 30 years... the trigger number =30 years
then 30 x 2 = 60
60% of salary average for last ? ( i forgot the number of years... maybe 3 or 5)
so if a teacher's last 5 year average was 50k
(and to be 50, teacher probably had advanced degrees)
then .60 x 50k = 30 thousand per year.
then if the state approves the cola. they will get a 3% bump each year...
also, if the teacher adds extra years. they get an extra 2% for each year.
in above example.. if teacher works 31 years . the retirement would pay 62% of 50k.

this is the big carrot that helps keep teachers working when they could leave the field of education and go elsewhere and make more money doing something else.

there are some old state of georgia retirees that worked under a plan that if they worked for ?xx years they could get a pension that was much better than the teacher plan...
i know of some older retirees (age in 70's ) that are receiving near 100% of salary.
if you see two old geezers talking and both are retired, the question will be.
" joe, are you old plan?" joe will smile and say "yeah, sure am. too bad they changed that!"
other guy who started a few years after joe... is on new plan... good, but not as good as joe's "old plan"

the current teacher retirement plan in georgia.. is well funded... it is a stand alone plan... the state legislature has tried hard to take control of the TRS (teacher retirement system) and to blend it (join, combine, merge) the trs with other georgia retirement plans... the teachers paid into the trs heavily every month they worked. many of the other state plans are not so well funded.

in a bankruptcy situation in georgia... that big trs account is something that the state or courts may try to steal to help offset other liabilities. the state has been trying to steal/abscond with for many years already.

And I believe it's even better for administrators.

[wwdnet]

NYS, with one of the highest tax rates in the nation, had a $6.1B deficit before the Wuhan flu, mostly due to mismanagement of taxpayer revenues, mishandled union contracts, horrible green energy investments, and providing top-rate services for illegal aliens. The NYC MTA is subsidized to keep fares far lower than actual costs; upstate NY, with no MTA, shoulders the majority of that financial burden.

Do I want to bail out NYS? Not them, or any other state that has made itself into a financial sinkhole and a sanctuary for illegal aliens. FL is required by the state Constitution to balance the budget every year. As a result, we're better positioned to recover financially than NY or IL or CA because we have a surplus every year.

The federal government (that's us) has spent an obscene amount of money to provide supplies and personnel to states that are responsible for having their own emergency supplies and plans in place. This burden we're putting on future generations of taxpayers is going to impact their quality of life for years to come. Government pension plans need to go the way of private company plans: 401K or equivalent, with a small percentage of matching funds.

[rockriver]

thank you wwd for getting us "back on track...

ref ga educators. googling the quesiton can clarify any info needed... for instance, i just learned it is not as well funded as i thought..

[wwdnet]

thank you wwd for getting us "back on track...

ref ga educators. googling the quesiton can clarify any info needed... for instance, i just learned it is not as well funded as i thought..

How would moving away from pensions work? My husband's company stopped the pension plan, funded each employee according to what they would be entitled to at that length of service, and set up 8% 401K matching funds. Retirees weren't affected, only active employees. It seems to have worked.

[tarheelsman71]

I think it isnt just the states that are going bankrupt. ALOT of companies are dying right now. My company cut everyone's pay by 20% to save the business. A couple of friends of mine jobs (that are still working) did the same thing. Local hospitals are probably in the worst shape since they planned for global pandemic and chaos and now 2/3 of the beds in the hospital is empty. They erected a huge tent for "overflow" that was never used. They have furloughed 1/2 their nursing and Dr's and a friend that is the dir of maint (that sits on the budget meetings with all the other directors) says they are 2 months from having to close their doors. CFO's in all companies are praised and paid boocoo bucks to create a system to walk that line of Cost/profit vs performance. not sustainability. I worked in nascar for 2.5 years and they are in the same boat. Layoffs and pay cuts. And their sponsorship money was already in the bank long before Covid showed up. So can the states go bankrupt...absolutely. Can the Fed's bail them out...absolutely. But with borrowed or FIAT currency that really has no value and then the economic collapse we prepped for is upon us. Right now the toilet boil has started to swirl, catching all the Shiitake up in the eddys. It hasnt reached full on FLUSH yet, and this will be a long ride down the chute, but this might just be the reason it all goes south.

[Lowdown3]

I think it isnt just the states that are going bankrupt. ALOT of companies are dying right now. My company cut everyone's pay by 20% to save the business. A couple of friends of mine jobs (that are still working) did the same thing. Local hospitals are probably in the worst shape since they planned for global pandemic and chaos and now 2/3 of the beds in the hospital is empty. They erected a huge tent for "overflow" that was never used. They have furloughed 1/2 their nursing and Dr's and a friend that is the dir of maint (that sits on the budget meetings with all the other directors) says they are 2 months from having to close their doors. CFO's in all companies are praised and paid boocoo bucks to create a system to walk that line of Cost/profit vs performance. not sustainability. I worked in nascar for 2.5 years and they are in the same boat. Layoffs and pay cuts. And their sponsorship money was already in the bank long before Covid showed up. So can the states go bankrupt...absolutely. Can the Fed's bail them out...absolutely. But with borrowed or FIAT currency that really has no value and then the economic collapse we prepped for is upon us. Right now the toilet boil has started to swirl, catching all the Shiitake up in the eddys. It hasnt reached full on FLUSH yet, and this will be a long ride down the chute, but this might just be the reason it all goes south.

"Wes says- When society takes the big flush, we will be the ones clinging to the rim!"


Now add in the prospect of dementia Joe getting elected in November. Not only there goes your "AR14" but the economic will go further to crap like it did under the liberal savior from Kenya years ago.

[wwdnet]

I think it isnt just the states that are going bankrupt. ALOT of companies are dying right now. My company cut everyone's pay by 20% to save the business. A couple of friends of mine jobs (that are still working) did the same thing. Local hospitals are probably in the worst shape since they planned for global pandemic and chaos and now 2/3 of the beds in the hospital is empty. They erected a huge tent for "overflow" that was never used. They have furloughed 1/2 their nursing and Dr's and a friend that is the dir of maint (that sits on the budget meetings with all the other directors) says they are 2 months from having to close their doors. CFO's in all companies are praised and paid boocoo bucks to create a system to walk that line of Cost/profit vs performance. not sustainability. I worked in nascar for 2.5 years and they are in the same boat. Layoffs and pay cuts. And their sponsorship money was already in the bank long before Covid showed up. So can the states go bankrupt...absolutely. Can the Fed's bail them out...absolutely. But with borrowed or FIAT currency that really has no value and then the economic collapse we prepped for is upon us. Right now the toilet boil has started to swirl, catching all the Shiitake up in the eddys. It hasnt reached full on FLUSH yet, and this will be a long ride down the chute, but this might just be the reason it all goes south.

While everyone thinks GA, OK, and CO are jumping the gun, I think it's time to see if we can get the economy back on track while co-existing with the Wuhan Flu. Given the proper precautions, it should be possible. It won't be the same as it was last year, but it will be a heck of a lot better than watching the whole country go down the financial drain.

[miked2345]

We have 50 states, and they vary from "really bad management" to "pretty responsible management". The badly managed states are kind of like the kid who always brings home the report card with all D's and E's... It's never his fault, it's always the mean teacher, the bad school, life's not fair, yada, yada, yada.

Of course, all the states that are mis-managed think it's only "fair" that the rest of us bail them out. But it's like the brother-in-law with a gambling problem who comes to you for a loan. It will never be enough for them.

On the other hand, I think the issue with bailing out the "Bad states" will be the least of our problems. With the sky-high debt the feds are adding, I think the whole country will be headed to the crapper. Think Venezuela on steroids.

[rockriver]

miked, i really like your post..
so.. looking at your last paragraph.
anyone/ anticipating this possibility/probability..

what should folks be doing now?

[Lowdown3]

I remember riding through Illinois one time and it was the first state I had ever seen regular consistent signs telling you a hole was in the road.

Was visiting my grandparents that were up that way. I told my grandpa- "with the time and money it took to put up two (one on each side) permanent metal signs telling you a hole is in the road, why didn't they just fix the pothole?"

He laughed and said "Illinois has been out of money a long time now." I can't remember if he used the used "bankrupt" or not. This was mid 90's ish time period.

Might want to google what other states went through when they went bankrupt. Then plan for 2X worse.