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  • will we turn against each other?

    guys,
    just something to consider..

    let the "we" in title apply to whatever group(s), association(s), hunting club, village, a person may be involved in...

    i'm going to use church and cs (highly respected independent church support organization) in my little tale...
    and I gotta start it with

    "what if" billy and his wife were very active members down at the local church.
    and their Bible made it clear that before Jesus came back that "fellowservants" would turn on each other. and that "they" would turn each other in to be jailed, and even killed. (matthew 24) billy had been taught that this didn't apply to Christians as Christians would love and care for each other.
    billy was also heavily involved financially and time wise with a cs that supported the efforts of his and all Christian churches.

    then the preacher man orchestrated an awesome takeover at the church. getting longtime laymen to quit or at least quit their leadership positions.
    putting "his men" in positions of authority. a by-product of the takeover was to "demonize" all ex laymen leaders. (the germans did this to the jews as ww2 developed)

    then the preacherman went after billy and his wife telling the national organization what a terrible person billy was, and that billy was causing discord at the local church. billy wasn't a terrible person, but he was a part of the new group of folks that began to meet together after the takeover, once billy realized what had happened. (nice guy, but low in discernment as the takeover was underway) so... maybe the accusation of "discord" was truthful..

    therefore, cs, (international), got a quick acknowledgement (confession) from billy, that yes he had been a part of the group that left and yes, they had met at his house. so billy had broken one of the rules of the cs. billy's confession of actual occurences could be construed as spreading discord. the local cs group hugely supported billy and his wife. but the "international" cs sent in regional and area directors to get rid of billy and his wife. it worked.

    the good news for billy. he learned a lesson in believing what was written in his Bible.

    so applying this story to other issues...
    gun rights... gov't may send in out of town/state men to take your guns or imprison billy, and not use the local sheriff (who is a friend of billy's!)
    essential needs... critical supplies (food, tractors, trucks, farm) owned by billy might be confiscated for the common good by national guard from new yawk
    when billy lives in Alabama.

    it's not hard to see division from within. and if you add an outside influence, even easier to see. sad to say!

  • #2
    So "billy" had folks at his house that he went to a RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION aka institutional church and said organization got tee'd off because he had members meet at his home? Trying to get a handle on this???

    Division, discord is EVERYWHERE and in EVERYTHING these days. I blame a lot of it on TV, "social" media and just poor upbringing of people.

    In survival circles, everyone probably remembers the stupid TV show "The Colony" and what a frickin train wreck those people were in there with the drama. Or more recently shows like "Naked and Afraid", where it's partly about the survival situation but mostly about the SOCIAL DRAMA.

    The problem is further exasperated by people not knowing or even trying to figure out HOW TO FIX THINGS when crap goes wrong. And it's GOING to go wrong at some point. Sit down and talk, work things out? That rarely happens any more. Why? Pride for the most part.

    And never forget that your usually NOT going to get a Merit Badge for doing the right thing any more. Doesn't even matter if the other party realizes they were in the wrong. Yet if you know your in the right and that your doing what's right STICK WITH IT and to hell with whatever else anyone thinks.

    Sometimes people figure out their wrongs over time also. I had a close friend for years that I did prep stuff with, hung out with a lot, etc. He had some serious character flaws (cheated on his wife, had the responsibility of a toddler, etc) but he was considered overall a "good guy" and was liked by many. He got into some bad stuff, stuff no one in our circle would be smart to be near. I dropped him over it. Lost a team mate and a friend. You can't take chances on things like that. 8 years or more later he calls me. In talking he says "dude, you remember that ONE TIME we were doing such and such and I screwed up....." I laughed and replied "oh that ONE TIME, just that ONCE..." and we laughed about it. The reality was he did exactly what he was talking about just about EVERY time and everyone acknowledged that. Still would not team up with the guy, but my point was at some point in that time period he probably thought at the circumstances and realized yes he did in deed bear fault there- and that was his kinda sorta maybe going to take a sliver of responsibility for that (maybe) acknowledgement. LOL

    Said person like most people when they are tee'd off and are trouble makers, did indeed try to sow division upon leaving. Didn't work because he had greatly overestimated his standing with others. He thought he was a pillar but unfortunately most saw him as a joke.

    Like John Wayne said "a man's gotta know his limitations."
    www.homesteadingandsurvival.com

    www.survivalreportpodcast.com

    "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed..."

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    • #3
      to keep story short...
      the preacher man wanted full and complete control of church... the old deacons wouldn't go along. so preacherman went after deacons one at a time... using different methods and a boat load of lies. lying and smiling and hugging all at the same time.
      awesome skillset.. evil, but awesome.

      as folks started leaving, billy invited them to his house for some meetings.
      preacherman convinced the remaining members that those that left were evil.
      preacherman went after billy by complaining to the cs group about billy.

      the story isn't over...
      bottom line is... folks that know each other and trust each other will be betrayed by each other.
      sad commentary.
      getting to know each other now is a good idea.
      asking Father to help us with discernment is a good idea too..

      Comment


      • #4
        It's been my experience that folks raised/reared "in church" tend to think everyone with a church background is automatically legit. That's fair from true in my experience.

        In my other job, doing "business to business" type stuff (not the prep business), I used to always run into folks that would outwardly tell me they were 'Christian' upfront, or have John 3:16 on their biz cards or otherwise USE that to promote themselves or their business. Better than probably 50% of them wouldn't pay their bills, lied big time to try to get out of contracts, etc. Then their was some that I kinda sorta figured were Believers but did not wear it on their shoulder or use it as part of the promoting of their business. Over time in developing relationships with them, you would figure it out or they would finally mention something that confirmed it. THOSE types were the ones that you never had problems with, paid their bills on time, if their was a problem they would work it out with you without accusations and related BS.

        They witnessed through their ACTIONS versus just their words. Huge difference in the two.
        www.homesteadingandsurvival.com

        www.survivalreportpodcast.com

        "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed..."

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Lowdown3 View Post
          So "billy" had folks at his house that he went to a RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION aka institutional church and said organization got tee'd off because he had members meet at his home? Trying to get a handle on this???

          Division, discord is EVERYWHERE and in EVERYTHING these days. I blame a lot of it on TV, "social" media and just poor upbringing of people.

          In survival circles, everyone probably remembers the stupid TV show "The Colony" and what a frickin train wreck those people were in there with the drama. Or more recently shows like "Naked and Afraid", where it's partly about the survival situation but mostly about the SOCIAL DRAMA.

          The problem is further exasperated by people not knowing or even trying to figure out HOW TO FIX THINGS when crap goes wrong. And it's GOING to go wrong at some point. Sit down and talk, work things out? That rarely happens any more. Why? Pride for the most part.

          And never forget that your usually NOT going to get a Merit Badge for doing the right thing any more. Doesn't even matter if the other party realizes they were in the wrong. Yet if you know your in the right and that your doing what's right STICK WITH IT and to hell with whatever else anyone thinks.

          Sometimes people figure out their wrongs over time also. I had a close friend for years that I did prep stuff with, hung out with a lot, etc. He had some serious character flaws (cheated on his wife, had the responsibility of a toddler, etc) but he was considered overall a "good guy" and was liked by many. He got into some bad stuff, stuff no one in our circle would be smart to be near. I dropped him over it. Lost a team mate and a friend. You can't take chances on things like that. 8 years or more later he calls me. In talking he says "dude, you remember that ONE TIME we were doing such and such and I screwed up....." I laughed and replied "oh that ONE TIME, just that ONCE..." and we laughed about it. The reality was he did exactly what he was talking about just about EVERY time and everyone acknowledged that. Still would not team up with the guy, but my point was at some point in that time period he probably thought at the circumstances and realized yes he did in deed bear fault there- and that was his kinda sorta maybe going to take a sliver of responsibility for that (maybe) acknowledgement. LOL

          Said person like most people when they are tee'd off and are trouble makers, did indeed try to sow division upon leaving. Didn't work because he had greatly overestimated his standing with others. He thought he was a pillar but unfortunately most saw him as a joke.

          Like John Wayne said "a man's gotta know his limitations."

          "Man's got to know his limitations" Clint Eastwood- Magnum Force.:)
          http://theoldtimeway.blogspot.com/

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Benn Gleck View Post
            "Man's got to know his limitations" Clint Eastwood- Magnum Force.:)
            See!!!! Proving my point EXACTLY!!! LOL I think the only Clint Eastwood movie I've seen completely is Heartbreak Ridge. Well, and Gran Torino LOL.
            www.homesteadingandsurvival.com

            www.survivalreportpodcast.com

            "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed..."

            Comment


            • #7
              I have an associate who was part of a serious survivalist group...
              they obtained property with each putting money and time into the property.
              after several years of no "bad" event, one of the members quit participating.
              then he started using the group property as a hunting/fishing camp.
              --
              he would bring his neighbors/friends/buddies to the group property.
              doing so... he ruined the security features of the camp and violated all the group purposes
              as originally intended...

              he turned against his original team...
              (story told as best I could remember it! if someone on this board has a similar story, please feel free to share it.)

              Comment


              • #8
                Have heard similar stories multiple times over the last 30 years.

                Two "long time" friends cleaning up the mess after a group breakup bought some property together. Both were "hard core" survivalists, bought the land for survival purposes, talked about everything up front and agreed, etc.

                After some time, one of the two decided he was going to be raptured out before ANY trouble could hit him and totally lost interest in survivalism. Not wanting to "lose" out on the land, he started taking friends up there to ride ATVs, hunt and hang out. They rode ATV's through garden areas the other guy had set up, trashed stuff, brought friends who did all kinds of messed up stuff, etc.

                Buying land with others is always a risk, don't care how long you've known them, what you think a "gentleman's agreement" will do, etc.
                www.homesteadingandsurvival.com

                www.survivalreportpodcast.com

                "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed..."

                Comment


                • #9
                  We need to realize how little it takes for people to "turn" on you like RR is talking about.

                  No matter how much you have done for some people, they often will turn and "hate" you over the smallest things. '

                  As many of you know from public campouts, etc. I used to do a lot more to help people. A handful of guys were working together and trying to better themselves. They all started with about zero knowledge. Worse than that, like most, they THOUGHT they knew something when they didn't. I helped them out for a number of years. One guy who was some supposedly some convoluted relation to another guy was clearly there just because the other guy dragged him out each time. He never had what was needed, was always late and in doing so made everyone else late. He had an AD on the firing range and didn't seem to learn from it, nor bother to apologize to the others for endangering them.

                  Throughout all of that, I was helping him learn and training him for free. Of course anyone with half a brain realizes nothing is really "free" as I had costs involved with training supplies, targets, let alone my time involved setting up, taking down as well as the training itself.

                  AD guy made zero progress over the time period. Worse so, his handling issues were making more than a few people concerned about working with him. I honestly think he was one of these people that "get by" in life with the help of meds, as his mind NEVER seemed to be present. The "relative" continued to drag him to events, even though it made him late, made him miss a few due to AD guy ditching out on him at the last minute. In general people like AD guy bring down others around him. I don't know if it's sympathy for someone that seems a bit "lacking" or what, but it's a real thing I've seen people do. Too often instead of pushing the guy like that to aspire to more, people just kind of slack more so the other doesn't seem that bad. That's effin horrible...

                  Anywhoo, despite 3 years of free training, gear at cost, giving him multiple chances to even bother to say sorry for being late constantly, dragging others down or even the safety issues, dude made a big deal about paying for gear (at cost) that he had received but forgot to pay for over a year prior. He cried that it "wasn't fair" that he was expected to pay for something he received a year ago (but never paid for). Eff it, done with that kind of crap in my life. I should probably add in here that the gear amount he never paid was $25. Yes, twenty five dollars...


                  Socialist mindsets in supposedly conservative circles makes me effin sick!

                  I don't want to help losers survive, I want to help good people survive.

                  We have to be careful, when we make it TOO EASY for people, they don't appreciate it at all. Oh yeah, you'll get the flowery BS of "when you need some help I'll be there", but TEST IT and see if it's real. 99% of the time it's just talk.
                  Last edited by Lowdown3; 03-16-2017, 01:30 PM.
                  www.homesteadingandsurvival.com

                  www.survivalreportpodcast.com

                  "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed..."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I can completely identify with the situation RR mentioned. I was part of newly formed MAG that consisted of 8 couples. Some had kids ranging from newborns to college age. Some didn't have any kids. We formed up after about 2 years of being in the same Meet Up group of about 200 people that focused around common sense preparedness.

                    We had good cross section of talent and experience. Medical, technical, military, agricultural and livestock. We had identified property here in AZ with some mountain lakes nearby and good ground water we were going to buy and use as our BOL. We had spoken to local ranchers about buying cattle and helping with predator control and round up. We were received pretty well by the ranchers particularly when we mentioned shooting coyotes and mountain lions year around. Things were looking pretty good until one of the guys, "Romeo", decided to divorce his wife and include his new girlfriend and his ex-wife. Actually, the son didn't want to leave his mom out. I suppose I can't blame the son for being loyal to his mother. Anyways, when others in the group started asking "Romeo" about how he was going to manage the girlfriend and the ex being in the group he told us it was none of the group's business well, as you can imagine that didn't go over too well especially when the wives were friends with the ex-wife and really didn't like the new girlfriend.
                    "One cannot but ponder the question: what if the Arabs had been Christians? To me it seems certain that the fatalistic teachings of Mohammed and the utter degradation of women is the outstanding cause for the arrested development of the Arab. He is exactly what he was around the year 700, while we have kept on developing. Here, I think, is a text for some eloquent sermon on the virtues of Christianity." - General George S. Patton, diary, June 9, 1943.

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                    • #11
                      folks really need to know the folks they hang out with.

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