The "host" side of the equation

[Lowdown3]

Prompted by the "new guy, new family" how to evaluate them thread. Didn't want to sidetrack that thread any more that I did already :)

Protus wrote-

It be best to figure out where first..then to speak to who's in charge.
Campfires are nice. But rules and what's expected need to be hashed out before settling in.

The "host" side of the equation in any grouping together when SHTF situation is an often overlooked side of the issue.

SMART guests will however consider this issue: re Protus post part of which is copied above.

The landowner/host has a plethora ("Yes Jefe you have a plethora!") of potential problems and pitfalls in regards to hosting others both ahead of time (i.e, now) and more importantly when TSHTF.

As a GUEST, going into this with the right attitude and mindset is absolutely crucial if you are going to make this work.

Since most of us have seen The Walking Dead, I'm going to use parts of that as talking points here. Some of the group dynamics shown there in regards to this are very well done- hence why I will refer to that.

There is a fine line between being a welcomed guest and an unwelcome guest.

CONTINUED BELOW

[Lowdown3]

Wrong assumptions to start out with as a guest-

1. The host "needs" me. REALITY- if the person has made the considerable preparations to move to a safe area ahead of time, make huge lifestyle changes necessary to live this way, etc. He is most likely taking things seriously enough that he has multiple plans in this regard.

2. I just need to get my foot in the door then I'm good. REALITY- It's much more than just being allowed to store some crap at the owner's place, or visiting once every couple years. This sort of arrangement normally requires some COMMITMENT. The host wants to KNOW you are reliable, trustworthy and WILL be there when the time comes.

One of the worst things you can do is start talking about the "options" you have when bugging out if the host is expecting you when the time comes. Which canoe are you in? This one, another one? No one can keep one foot in one canoe and another foot in another canoe. Inevitably you DO NOT MOVE FORWARD in either canoe when you do that. And you usually end up face down in the water. COMMITMENT. More so than SAYING it, DOING IT.

I learned really early on that the ones who were loudest with the proclamations of "I'll be there when you need me!" were the ones that were the most UNRELIABLE. Thank God I never truly"needed" them. If they won't make a small sacrifice of time to come now, they damn sure aren't going to later when TSHTF.

Reliability- you can't FAKE it, you can't TALK your way through it.

Yep, this is all BIG BOY stuff. You need to recognize that and NOT WASTE OTHER'S TIME if your not willing to be that big boy or girl.

3. I can look at this place as my "insurance policy" now. REALITY- showing up once, dropping off some crap of yours (pre-positioning supplies) that you have never checked on, cleaned up or attended to, has a commitment level of less than a first date. Recognize that. Realize that without regular and reliable attendance (read: commitment), your storage space, your sleeping space, whatever is entitled with the arrangement can be/probably will be "up for grabs." Why would someone "hold" a space for you when your not coming now? What in the world would make them think that suddenly you will show up later when you don't show up now?

4. I will do as little as possible to maintain my "place"- REALITY- see above #3 Due to (everyone's) prevailing issue of limited space and limited land to "carry" a large group, dragarses are regularly being sifted out. You will likely be required to come and get any crap (read pre-positioned supplies) within a certain period of time after being informed of that. You may have to meet at a public spot to do that if you've went full retard or otherwise caused someone to deem you a security risk.

5. "Well I'm "IN" now because I showed up once or paid a paltry sum, so I can basically do whatever the hell I please!" REALITY- Negative.
This is still not your home. Show respect or GTFO. Rule #1

Now, this could run the gamut from intentional sabotage of efforts (it happens) to just normal everyday not caring enough to think about others feelings. Understand that most people will put themselves first in ANYTHING they do. If that "anything" includes anything at YOUR home, that won't matter to some people. So if someone thinks nothing of yelling loudly at their wife, kids, etc. they will most likely do it also at your home. If they think nothing of taking care of their own home, they will most likely not give a damn about helping to take care of your place either.

Showing up announced is one of the worst things you can do. Understand that for most people, just having guests during "normal" times is more than just a little put out. Don't assume the host has nothing going on, "is always there" etc. I'll never forget getting a call on a Saturday as I was 2 hours away from home driving to pick up an item our family looked forward to getting for a year or more and hearing that someone had just randomly shown up at our place! No amount of "go ahead with your plans, we will just be over here" BS means anything when you show up unannounced. Don't do it, period.

So, we've dealt with a lot of the negatives and I know, some people think some of this is "really out there." Guess what, it REALLY HAPPENS. You couldn't make this stuff up. If you haven't been through it as a host, you would ASSUME like all the other little pollyannas on the net that everything will just go along smoothly.

It CAN be smooth, but it isn't going to be smooth without a LOT of effort, without a lot of groundwork and communications.

I think it's important to state that few start off with a host with the attitude that they won't ever put in any effort ahead of time, etc. I'm a firm believer in the power people have to delude themselves and TRULY BELIEVE that they will/can do all the things required of them. Others feel like for some reason they are more special than anyone else and therefore the rules don't apply to them. Others might feel that things that irritate you are "little things" that shouldn't matter.

[protus]

Good points. Glad you added to the original topic.
#1 should always be respect. Showing/giving it goes a long way.
Your just showing up un annouced scenario shows lack of it.on the guest part.
Keep the info coming.!

[Lowdown3]

What you need is a bunch of "zealots", unfortunately you can usually only ever find 1 or 2, sometimes none. :)

By "zealots" I mean those that are truly interested in making the arrangement work.

It's basically the 80/20 thing people talk about with work, organizations, church, etc. It does play out here also. I.e, 20% of the people do 80% of the work.

How do you deal with that?

[protus]

What you need is a bunch of "zealots", unfortunately you can usually only ever find 1 or 2, sometimes none. :)

By "zealots" I mean those that are truly interested in making the arrangement work.

It's basically the 80/20 thing people talk about with work, organizations, church, etc. It does play out here also. I.e, 20% of the people do 80% of the work.

How do you deal with that?

Not give out ham sandwiches and Kool aide lol .

Part of the vetting process of course should be to judge the willingness of the guest to do work..or the key word..willingness to do it.
I'd rather have a guy who doesn't know bust his rump doing all the minor hands freeing stuff than staring at the back of the guy who does know..not learning or helping. Slowing down the project.
Very common at work in real life...because that same guy will try to replicate what he has watched but will 90% of the time take 4 times as long and the quality of the work is sub part.
Causing more work for the others.
But it's a pride this game for some. Others it's a game. To get out of harder work.
Let's watch jimmy wire up this sub panel..use that as reason for what your doing vs digging the trench for the feed...and next time trench work is on the table it's " yeah...I can wire this..." and it just happens to get finished as the ditch is.....
Lil bit of a sore spot with me imho.